Page 16 - Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

21-02.-2006, 07:38 AM

#226

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

Not in any physics book that I've read.

Technically true. However, what causes lights to work? How does that electricity get generated? What does the power station use to create the electricity? Coal, nuclear, natural gas......but not oil.

21-02.-2006, 07:40 AM

#227

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Yeah. Electricity isn't energy.

That is correct. Electricity isn't energy.

Electricity is derived from energy.
Basics physics, Colorado Ryder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Power stations in the US don't burn oil to generate electricity. Now why would they need to be converted? Domestic lighting? Powered by electricity. Oh thats right.....electricity isn't energy.

We were discussing energy requirements throughout the USA/Western World
here is post 2 on that thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Limerickman

Let's get some facts straight before you begin to speculate.

The issue is energy - how to generate energy.
Currently oil is deemed to be the most efficient method of generating energy.

America consumes between 25-30% of daily oil production, worldwide.

The premise of your question needs to be examined.

Professor XYZ comes up with an alternative energy source.
Given that the USA (and the rest of the world) is wholly dependent on oil to fuel to keeps it's entire way of life going in the short term it wouldn't make a blind bit of difference if this new energy source was found
because

(a) the entire US/World infrastructure is engineered to process only one fuel - oil.The capital expenditure required to reconfigure all of the power
station, cars, planes, trains,
manaufacturing processes, domestic light and heating systems, would
run in to literally billions.

(b) the time line for all this reconfiguration would take literally years.

So the Middle East and other oil producing nations ultimately hold the upper hand - even if a new environmentally friendsly cheap source is found.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

21-02.-2006, 07:43 AM

#228

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Technically true. However, what causes lights to work? How does that electricity get generated? What does the power station use to create the electricity? Coal, nuclear, natural gas......but not oil.

According to Paul Roberts : it's oil that powers the USA's energy requirements,
including electricity.

21-02.-2006, 07:45 AM

#229

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

That is correct. Electricity isn't energy.

Electricity is derived from energy.
Basics physics, Colorado Ryder.

We were discussing energy requirements throughout the USA/Western World
here is post 2 on that thread.

Why would we need to convert our power stations if they currently don't use oil in the production of electricity?

21-02.-2006, 07:46 AM

#230

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

According to Paul Roberts : it's oil that powers the USA's energy requirements,
including electricity.

I guess then we don't have coal fired power plants, or nuclear power plants, or natural gas fired power plants. They must all run on oil.

21-02.-2006, 07:54 AM

#231

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Why would we need to convert our power stations if they currently don't use oil in the production of electricity?

Why did you deliberately misquote me ?

21-02.-2006, 07:59 AM

#232

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Why did you deliberately misquote me ?

I didn't. I even pasted the quote. It is as you said. Show mw where I misquoted you.

21-02.-2006, 08:11 AM

#233

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

I didn't. I even pasted the quote. It is as you said. Show mw where I misquoted you.

Twice you have misquoted me :

Thread http://www.cyclingforums.com/showth...rgy#post2551255

On message 8 of that thread, you posted a direct reply to me about electricity, when I wasn't discussing electricity.
I never referred to electricity on that thread - you will not find the word electricity in messages 2 and 6 on that thread.
I referred to energy - not electricity in messages 2 and 6 on that thread.

Today on message 212 on this thread, you state without any prompting
"As well as the preposterous view expressed that most electricity generated is by oil."
I never stated anything about electricity on this or any other thread prior to message 212.
I was talking about energy on "we don't need oil anymore, now what" thread.

So you have misquoted me twice.

21-02.-2006, 08:21 AM

#234

stevebaby

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Craggy Island

Posts: 2,825

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Generation of energy is what Paul Roberts discusses.

You've heard of him?

Yes,I've read the book.I don't remember much of it,but I recall that it was well written and worth re-reading.If he says that most energy ( as opposed to electrical energy) is produced by oil then he is probably correct.
I'm reading "Blood and Oil" at the moment,by Michael Klare (no ISBN listed in book).He shows the historical links between the us and saudi arabia and makes a few predictions based on those links.
I'm glad I don't live in an oil-producing country.They are all due for
"the iraq treatment".The us military machine is entirely dependent on oil and the oil supply of the us is dependent on their military machine.
The saudis must be pretty nervous.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

21-02.-2006, 08:27 AM

#235

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

Roberts book is very very interesting to read.

I must get that Michael Klare book that you refer to.

21-02.-2006, 08:28 AM

#236

stevebaby

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Craggy Island

Posts: 2,825

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Yeah. Electricity isn't energy.

Let's look at what else you posted.

Power stations in the US don't burn oil to generate electricity. Now why would they need to be converted? Domestic lighting? Powered by electricity. Oh thats right.....electricity isn't energy.

Nobody has said that electricity isn't energy as far as I can see.
Energy is not necessarily electricity however.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

21-02.-2006, 08:34 AM

#237

stevebaby

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Craggy Island

Posts: 2,825

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Technically true. However, what causes lights to work? How does that electricity get generated? What does the power station use to create the electricity? Coal, nuclear, natural gas......but not oil.

Power stations certainly use less oil than they used to...30 years ago about 20% of europe's electricity came from oil-fired stations.Oil fired stations still exist,in the us and elsewhere.

__________________
I'm Rooting for Chiara!
Drink!Feck!Arrse!Girls!
bastard

21-02.-2006, 08:37 AM

#238

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

When are you going to get around to answering the question? We can play word games all day long. You are actually good at it.
Why does the US need to reconfigure its power generating plants when thwy don't currently use oil in the process?

Now if you want to continue to quote Paul Roberts at least read the book and understand what he is saying. Paul Roberts states that nearly all residential and business(non-industrial) electricity(70-80% of all electricity generated goes to the residential/business sector)is generated by something other than oil. He also states there are many industrial processes which require short term high energy requirements. To connect to the normal power grid would cause the grid to collapse and result in a blackout in that area. Manufacturing companies will generate their own electricity on site. They use diesel since the set up is cheaper, quicker and safer.
Paul Roberts is telling us that with the end of oil these manufacturing firms will need to find a different fuel as oil becomes cost prohibitive. Will that process be expensive? Quite likely.

21-02.-2006, 08:39 AM

#239

Colorado Ryder

Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2005

Posts: 1,229

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevebaby

Oil fired stations still exist,in the us and elsewhere.

True. In the US there are few remaining. Certainly not enough to generate most of the electricity in the US.

21-02.-2006, 09:59 AM

#240

limerickman

Community Team

Join Date: Jan 2004

Location: at the bar

Posts: 12,649

Re: Mail Condemns Guantanamo Abuses

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

When are you going to get around to answering the question? We can play word games all day long. You are actually good at it.

That's ironic coming from you - you misquote me on two threads and then accuse me of playing word games.
Careful CR, you don't want to be making allegations that are untrue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Now if you want to continue to quote Paul Roberts at least read the book and understand what he is saying. Paul Roberts states that nearly all residential and business(non-industrial) electricity(70-80% of all electricity generated goes to the residential/business sector)is generated by something other than oil. He also states there are many industrial processes which require short term high energy requirements. To connect to the normal power grid would cause the grid to collapse and result in a blackout in that area. Manufacturing companies will generate their own electricity on site. They use diesel since the set up is cheaper, quicker and safer.
Paul Roberts is telling us that with the end of oil these manufacturing firms will need to find a different fuel as oil becomes cost prohibitive. Will that process be expensive? Quite likely.

I read the book and what Roberts is saying, among other things, is that your country that consumes 25% of daily world oil supply and is highly dependent upon oil for it's energy and security.
And that political decisions - both foreign and domestic - are predicated upon
oil and the securing supply.

I took that thesis forward to suggest that this is why your country invaded Iraq.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode