It's killing me but..........

Lonnie Utah

You know, your club should plan a long weekend trip up here to escape the heat of the summer down there. I could help you with the logistics if you wanted (routes, places to stay, eat, etc.) I would still be warm but not as warm as there. We're about 6 hours from vegas.

L

__________________
Cheap, Strong and Light.
Pick any Two.

RapDaddyo

I wouldn't do that to you. You can ride my road bike (Merlin Ti w/full Campy and PT SL). I'll ride my TT rig, a little clunker I am putting together out of spare parts.

I'm 4 hours from LA. There are some nice rides there as well (and some very fast dudes).
North, South, East & West.
I live in the SE corner of LV, near Henderson. I do most of my riding on the south and east sides of LV, in the direction of Lake Mead or Jean. We have nice rides to the west (e.g., Red Rock) and north (e.g., Mt. Charleston), but it's a pain to ride to them (tough to maintain the minimum speed limit on the freeways ), so I do them less frequently.

RapDaddyo

That's a good idea, Lonnie. I've been working up a list of great routes within a 3-hour driving radius of LV (~200 miles) for day trips, but I will eventually expand my horizons to weekend trips. It's a shame to have all these great bike ride routes within a reasonable travel time and not take advantage of them. I'm a pilot also, so I have been thinking about some day trips with a plane, which would increase the radius around LV to about 500 miles. The problem is that most planes aren't very bike friendly. Makes me long for an old DC-3.

Sillyoldtwit

And you wait until my new RED Shoes arrive, then I'll show you my rear wheel.

I've ordered 2 pairs of these! Just in case you missed this in the Power forum.


http://www.biketechreview.com/redshoe/brochure.htm

Sillyoldtwit

To hell with the hospital! Had my first shower since the century 13 days go - ripped off the final wound dressing. Too much effing mollycoddling over here.
Two small remaining areas are drying out nicely.

AGENDA:

All in the gym.

Sunday - gentle comeback day 1 x 60 mins @ 150Watts

Tuesday - continue gentle comeback 1 x 60 mins @ 200Watts

Thursday - BAM! ???????????????? Heehe! Who knows?!?!

Sunday (road) - Furious 50 burning rubber all the way!

TYSON

RapDaddyo

You'll find that your VO2MAX has detrained the most. When you begin to ramp it up to the power levels you were riding before, you'll find that you are more out of breath and your HR will probably be a few bpm higher, but your legs should be fine. Within a week to 10 days, you should be mostly back to pre-crash levels. I'm working on a document for you going forward, the what, why and how. Maybe I'll call it, "How to beat RDO."

Sillyoldtwit

Thanks for the comforting words RD, however, I don't agree with your vaticination. I shall say no more until after Thursday's session in the gym.

I can't wait to see this "document". A more appropriate title might be something like, "How to inflict torture on your fellow man."

Saying that, I might just settle for a more gentle title.


"How RD was ground into the dirt."

TYSON

Sillyoldtwit

I hate to admit it RD but you were right, I've taken quite a big step backwards.

After 1x60 @ 150W on Sunday & 1x50 @ 200W on Tuesday, I thought I'd be back on track today. Not so!

The long layoff and the viral infection have taken their toll.

As I said a couple of weeks back, I wanted to try the Aerobike max of 350Watts, just to see what it feels like. Did one solid minute and was puffing nicely at the finish.

Then did 1x10 @ 250watts and a 1 x5 @ 250 Watts. The needle was then reading on empty; couldn't even buid up the enthusiasm for 200 Watts.

End of session - very disappointing.

However, realistically I couldn't have expected much more and look forward to a V02 max session on Sunday. Can't go out on the bike as we are now in the rainy season and Sunday is rain.

Which brings me nicely to my next question RD. In Andy Pruitt's book, he says V02max intervals can be done at 2-5 minute intervals for 20 mins.
I assume if you do 2 minute intervals, you do 10 with a 2 minute rest between each. What is the difference in effect if any of shortening the intervals?
Psychologically, I feel it would be less stressful, and if you do 2 minute intervals rather than 5 minutes, do you do them at a higher Wattage?

RapDaddyo

It's really pretty amazing how much one detrains in a couple of weeks. But, it's also pretty amazing how fast you can come back to where you were. My suggestion is to drop back to ~200W and gradually work your way back up. You'll know when to increase power when it gets boring to ride at the reduced power. What has detrained the most is your VO2MAX. Your AWC would have detrained as well if you had worked on it, but you didn't. So, I'd say 2x20s @ 200W and 4x5s @ 240W for a week and then increase gradually as you begin to get bored.

Well, first, I make it a point to avoid criticizing anybody else's prescription for training. Rather, I prefer to explain my rationale for what I do. I do VO2MAX intervals at 120%FT (the upper end of Andy's recommended range) and 5mins is about 60% of my max duration at that power. So, a 5min 120%FT interval is not really very hard for me. But, it would be much harder if my max duration at 120%FT was, say, 6mins. And, it would be impossible if my max duration at 120%FT was, say, 4mins. I think 3mins is about the minimum duration I would want to use for VO2MAX intervals, but I don't see the argument for doing them at less than 60% of one's max duration at the target power. Give it a try. Ride at 120%FT for as long as you can. Then you can ride your weekly VO2MAX intervals at, say, 70-80% of that duration and know that you're well within your limitations. Max durations at a given power level are very revealing (and they are good training). I agree that ~20mins of VO2MAX intervals (cumulatively) is a good target. I'll cover VO2MAX and other targeted adaptations (physiological and psychological) in my upcoming document.

Sillyoldtwit

Thanks for your lengthy reply RD. I think although as you say detraining is obviously having an effect, I suspect having had a fever with a sore throat and swollen neck glands is playing no small part in my backward step.

I'll go along with your suggestion for the VO2 max session on Sunday, however, as last Tuesday's session of 1 x 50 @ 200W wasn't difficult at all until the last 5 mins (when I assume the adverse effects of the above kicked in), although I wasn't planning on training tomorrow, I think I'll go to the gym and do 1 x ??? @ 200W with no rest. I think at the moment I need to get training minutes under my belt in order to get back to normal ASAP.

One small problem I didn't mention; my training buddy who always hovered around 72kilos as gone a diet eating less breakfast etc. He's now 67 kilos!
I can't hope to get down that low, especially as I'm a few inches taller than him. 69 kilos I think is my limit without starting to lose power. So the only way I can counteract his weight loss is to generate more power.
Watch this space, as this animal gets wound up!

Btw, when do I start on the AWC training - can't wait! TYSON

RapDaddyo

Anytime you want. Why don't you start by finding your max duration at, say, 300W. I'm guessing it's in the range of 30s-3m, the ideal duration for AWC intervals. You won't ride your AWC intervals at 100% of your max duration, but this will give us a good idea what your power target should be for AWC intervals.

Sillyoldtwit

LOL RD, you didn't read my last post. I did a good solid 1 minute @ 350W, so I would guess a figure of 1 minute or less for 300W has got to be wrong. One minutes 15 seconds - 3 mins would be somewhere nearer me thinks.

Also I think we are fast approaching a time where we should let this thread fade into obscurity as it must be a big yawn for people now. So doing would also mean your not having to answer my inane questions all the time.

RapDaddyo

I didn't predict that your 300W max duration was 1 min. I said I thought your 300W max duration was somewhere between 30 secs and 3 mins. I think it would be more beneficial to do your AWC intervals toward the 3 min duration end of the range. As you move up the scale from ~120%FT, the max duration drops like a stone. I think you would find that you can't do repeats of 60s @ 350W, but then maybe you can. Anyway, I treat the L6 intervals like all others (except L7s), in that I ride them well within my max power for the duration because I'm after volume rather than a once-and-done effort. I'm looking for 15-20 minutes of L6 work in a ride.

You started it. When it has met your needs, shut it down. I'll still post my document when it's ready. Have to finish a major rewrite of a big project first. How does a running count of ride time by training level sound? Yeah, sounds good to me too.

curlew

Tyson, your friend has probably been starving himself in an effort to lose weight ever since you blew past him on showdown hill!!!





RDO, it's time to feed the monster that you created again.



Tyson, if it is fun and helpful for you, I hope you will continue the conversation. When you go back through the thread there is a lot of helpful information that you have drawn out from RDO and others. There was the starting out period, peaking for the big climb and the Lake Biwa ride, now we are going through a period where you are getting RDO's advice on how to regain power lost from detraining. It's not a big yawn at all and we haven't even gotten to the AWC training yet! Plus, there is the whole saga ahead of you going from 250 watts to breaking the 300 watt barrier.

RDO has been great in all of this. I wish I could come over and mow his lawn or trim his cacti for him when he is out of town and needs a favor.