It's killing me but..........

Sillyoldtwit

Talking about tyres, I have been wondering why I couldn't get anywhere near the same downhill speed with my new bike having the same gears as the old one. Suddenly it clicked tonight - maybe it's the tyres!

Checked them out and found they are IRC tyres. Unfortunately they are not listed in the link you gave me RD. Anyone know what the rolling resistance is like for IRC tyres? I assume there's more than 1 type.

Tyson

RapDaddyo

Is your position the same? Above 30mph, I would probably rank the issues that can result in increased speed as follows: position on bike, wheels, tires, frame, helmet. Believe it or not, even tire width has a measurable effect on speed >30mph!

curlew

Hi Tyson,

I am just now paying closer attention to something you recently said:



Hmmmm, when I read this I started wondering which of the goals you are talking about here so I started scrolling through the previous posts on this thread.

On February 7 2006 you wrote:



But you reached this goal back on March 20 because you wrote:



Then I start thinking that all of this conversation about training and watts wasn't just about cranking out more watts on a trainer. There was another goal! There was a story!

On a Janary 16 post to the thread "Is it time I retired?" Your wrote:



And then on March 7th you said:



An on April 8th you said:



I thought this showdown was going to be on the climbs to Lake Biwa on June 4th! The showdown has already happened hasn't it??? Oh my gosh, I feel like I missed a big event that I have been looking forward to for a long time. And this is all you are going to tell us????



Tyson, if I could wave a magic wand Rapdaddyo would be in the OLN TV helicopter providing the commentary as OLN does a world-wide TV broadcast of you and your younger climbing partner approaching and then heading up showdown hill. I can see parts of this clearly. Dr. Morbius, Whoawhoa, Palewin, Frenchyge, Kmavm, WarrenG, Fergie, Jeff828, Pureshot78, Bike-206, A5hi5m, Wherbob, Rapdaddyo, and Netscriber are all pedaling away on their trainers in front of their TV's while watching this special segment of Cyclism Sunday that is being broadcast from Japan. Come on Tyson, I don't have a magic wand so you please tell us what happened!!!!

RapDaddyo

How'd you know? The tape is so good it's going to be offered on pay-per-view. Better than "The Thrilla in Manila."

Sillyoldtwit

There's always one CIA spook posting in a forum!

After reading the entire Tyre RR thread, the Michelin Pro 2 race is in the lead at the mo. Still have time to decide though.

RapDaddyo

Good choice. Some complain that it's a little "squishy" in the corners (crits), but that's not your problem. Here's a discussion of that specific tyre http://www.bicycling.com/article/0,...category_id=361.

Sillyoldtwit

Thanks RD, I read that from the above link given in the other thread. Very informative.

netscriber

I second this. Although not being a man of man of many words, Id still like to thank RD and Tyson.
And Tyson, quit calling yourself an old fart. People older than me have beat me on the bike and are most of the times wiser than me. So there is no such thing as an old fart. There are just farts and they have been farts since they were younger.

My numbers...
I have been doing 2x20s relegiously for 2-3 weeks now. The first week was not so structured.
This week 2x20's @ 150W. Weight still 111lbs.
Today I did 3x20's outside.

And keep it up Tyson. I am eagerly waiting for the day when you are 140lbs and 350W FTP and you tell everyone about the local race you won.

netscriber

Hey Tyson, how do you know your old cycling buddy is not on this forum following your every move? I hope he doesnt call you Tyson in real life.

Sillyoldtwit

Just let's say I know. And 2x20 @ 150W is not to be sneezed at - I know because I was there not so very long ago. Congrats

And today another record tumbles.

1x20 @ 250W
1x10 @ 250W and with no rest 1x7 @ 240W

Cadence started to drop markedly so called it quits at 17 mins of the 2nd interval.

So RD where does this leave me for the VO2MAX intervals on Tuesday?

Don't tell me 270W. I think I told you my computer is going in for repair after this post for a month or two. I didn't? Me bad!

RapDaddyo

Well, I'd say it's at least 270W, maybe as high as 290W. If you can recall your perceived exertion after 5 mins of your first VO2MAX intervals, that's what the efforts should produce. Not total exhaustion, but it should require your full concentration to maintain power and a smooth and fluid pedaling stroke. The reason it could be as high as 290W is that from the above intervals your FT appears to be ~240W. If you do your VO2MAX intervals at 120%FT, that's 288W. Enjoy!

Sillyoldtwit

Hold on a minute RD! A week ago it was 260W, it's impossible to make such progress in a week. 290Watts?!?! don't think I could even move the pedals around at that Wattage. And also if you remember, I only managed to do 250W intervals. I know I was tired but still....... Geez 290W - I'll burst a blood vessel or rupture the skin covering my calves.

Sorry to keep asking you this RD, but what is the target for the 15th inst?

RapDaddyo

I'd try 275W for the first one. See how it feels after 5 mins. You can up it later if it's too easy.

Same as I said before, >100W. Forget about targets. Just worry about the task at hand -- consistency and riding your workouts at the right wattage. That's what got you here. Why fix a good wheel?

curlew

Tyson,

Here are the numbers I promised to post. I'm hoping that paying these "dues" might encourage you to produce a fuller account of your ride on "showdown hill". Here's the context for the numbers that follow.

I am currently 51 years old and weigh 162 lbs. In July 2005 I was resting overuse injuries that had accumulated from training for the half marathon I run each May. I thought getting back on the bike I rode in high school might be a good way of cross training while I waited for things to heal up. I had been a competitive racer at the Junior level in the 1970's but the bike racing community wasn't well established in the college towns where I went to school. So, like many of the friends that I rode with in high school, during my college years I drifted into recreational running as the way to stay in shape as an adult.

While giving those overuse injuries a rest last summer I went on my first group ride in 30 years. Wow, I realized how much I had missed by drifting away from riding…the colors, the speed, the sounds of tires surging against the pavement, the smooth flow of motion, the closeness. With that overuse injury I thought last summer would go down in my memory as the summer I finally had to give up running. Now that summer stands out and will be remembered as the summer I found my way back to my bike.

So here is where I was at the end of last summer. On 9/25/05 I did a competitive 40K TT with an average speed of 20.4 mph. When I go to the website (http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm) and plug in my 162 lb weight and 69 inch height I get an estimate Average Watts = 186

So, I continued to ride in October, November and December 2005, but your conversations in January 2006 with Rapdaddyo and others pushed me to bring more structure to my training. So about when you started training in January 2006 for "showdown hill", I started doing intervals down in the basement on a Kurt Kinetic trainer with a cyclocomputer that estimates watts from a wheel revolution vs resistance curve. My family thought I was nuts.

What immediately follows are the 2 X 30 intervals that I did between January 25 2006 and March 25 2006 indoors on the trainer. I try to maintain a pace that is between 5% below and 5% above my FT determined by a 1 hour TT on the trainer. During this time period I also did 2 X 20's and 6 X 5's. On most weeks I got between 1.5 and 2.5 hours of L4 in on the trainer. I rode outside on warmer days and spent time on rollers. On most weeks I got 6-8 hours in on the bike during this time period but there were significant periods where I got sick and was off the bike for at least a couple of 7 day stretches.

January 25
1st 30 : Ave Watts = 211 Ave HR = 140
2nd 30 : Ave Watts = 206 Ave HR = 139

March 6th
1st 30 : Ave Watts = 240 Ave HR = 140
2nd 30 : Ave Watts = 230 Ave HR = 138

March 15th
1st 30: Ave Watts = 238 Ave HR = 141
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 233 Ave HR = 141

March 18
1 Hour Critical Power Test Average Watts = 248 Ave HR = 151

March 25
1st 30: Ave Watts = 259 Ave HR = 146
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 259 Ave HR = 153

So the apparent change from January 25, 2006 (209 Watts) – March 25 2006 (259 Watts) is about 12%. I'm just not sure about this and I just don't think all of this increase is real. I had to switch entire rear wheels to get the gears I needed as I got stronger. I am using the steel framed bike that I road in high school on my trainer so I went back and forth during this time period on the trainer from a rear wheel with a 6 speed freewheel to a wheel that had a 5 speed freewheel. For spacing issues I couldn't just swap freewheels. I always did spindown tests before I started to try to make sure that resistance was comparable from session to session. Thanks whoawhoa for providing pointers on how to do this. Still, what I take from this is I got better. Really better, but until I have a powermeter that would reliably quantify my gains I feel awkward characterizing those gains numerically. I just don't trust the numbers. I think its been great that you have posted your watts. You produced your results in a more controlled way than I did. So my lack of posting wasn't from being secretive.

Now, starting April 5 all of my 30 min intervals are done outside. There is a 1.1 mile relatively flat loop in a park near my house. I try to maintain a pace that is between 5% below and 5% above my FT but I haven't determined my 1 hour FT outdoors yet, so I am probably basing my pacing on heart rate and perceived effort until I can get a 40K TT in on May 14th. To get my watt estimates, I take my average speeds then go to the website (http://www.kreuzotter.de/english/espeed.htm) and enter average speed with the assumptions below to get watts.

Bike Position: Hands on Drops
Assumptions: Riders Height = 69 inches
Riders Weight = 162 lbs
Bicycle Weight = 22.5 lbs
Air Temperature = 68F
Height Above Sea Level = 820 feet
Slope of Road = 0 (circular course, relatively flat)
Wind Speed = 0 (not sure how to handle this)
Pedaling Cadence = 90

April 5
1st 30: Ave Watts = 215 HR Ave HR = 138 Ave Speed = (21.6 mph)
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 205 HR Ave HR = 142 Ave Speed = (21.2 mph)

April 7

1st 30: Ave Watts = 215 Ave HR = 138 Ave Speed = (21.6 mph)
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 196 Ave HR = 142 Ave Speed = (20.8 mph)

April 11
1st 30: Ave Watts = 220 Ave HR = 138 Ave Speed = (21.8 mph)
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 205 Ave HR = 142 Ave Speed = (21.2 mph)

April 17
1st 30: Ave Watts = 220 Ave HR 138 Ave Speed = (21.8 mph)
2nd 30: Ave Watts = 210 Ave HR 142 Ave Speed = (21.4 mph)


So, my 30 min interval times outside are faster than my 40K TT speeds last fall. In a week I will do another 40KTT for a fall 05 -spring 06 comparison. I think my outdoor watts recently are lower than my indoor watts over the winter because I am not estimating them the same way. Also, I got into a bad habit indoors on the trainer. I didn't ride in an aero position so I think I am paying the price now of having to increase my power while riding in the more aero position that I didn't train in all winter.

My "showdown hill" has been the CAT 5 races that I entered this spring. I got field finishes in 2 races and was thrilled to find that I wasn't just hanging on. A third race revealed my greatest weakness. On looping circuit courses where you face the same pack splitting hill about every 2 minutes and the larger riders that suffered on the way up whip the speeds up on the downside, I see my whole book of matches used up in about the first 15 minutes of a 50 minute race. But, at this time of the year, the summer stretches endlessly ahead of us. So there is time and with the help you guys have given me I am hopeful that I can improve from here!!