It's killing me but..........

kopride

Its no mystery why the three of us who regularly lift weights chronically overtrain and/or wear ourselves down. I had a crappy weekend myself. I ate a nice sandwich of prosuitto and sharp provolone on a hard roll and then went out do a one hour tt on saturday in the mid afternoon heat. I figured I would see what my new FTP was. Needless to say that I felt like crap, but I did post a 283, only because the first half hour was 315. The second half hour, aside from the severe stomach cramps and heat, was the most painful 30 minutes of riding I have ever done and the last twenty minutes was just watching the average fall down click by click till it hit 183. Now, given that I estimated by numerous 2 x 20s that my FTP was within the 280-290 range, what possessed me to hammer the first 30 minutes at about 30 watts over what I realistically estimated I could maintain? So, I didn't ride Sunday and feel like crap today. I figure it will take me until mid week to recover.

Sillyoldtwit

LOL. The funny thing is, he is not joking. But then for people who can eat haggis, it's just one small step to Mars Bars fried in deep batter.

(for our friends in the Canadian and US colonies) A haggis is a small furry animal that nature blessed with 2 short left legs. This mutation allows them to circumnavigate steep hills in the anti-clockwise direction at high speeds without toppling over.

Kopride sarcasticlly wrote - or probably not:



Pendejo (as in the Pendejo Wattage Scale) asked:


I teach a little English as a filler, and if you give a Japanese a Mars Bar sample to chew on, you will be greeted with cries of KUDOI!!! and a face writhing in agony. Kudoi translates as 'bloody rich'. Japanese do not like overly rich food.

Js said:


I would say easily obtainable for you Js.

Kopride in his usual good form.

.

So Mars Bars are to blame for me taking a wrong turning then!

Tyson

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Ade Merckx

John you've been quiet. How are things going? Are you still bloggin?

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kopride

Tyson, what the heck are you doing to keep from melting down? Other than eating mars bars. I tried to resume my SSTtraining (2 x 20s) last night after a hard weekend and a few weeks of steady progress, but I couldn't even complete the workout. Are you tracking CTL, or is it all just a feel as to what your body can take. (I don't since I just use the saris software) And, yes, my vanity weight workouts seem to be taking a toll.

Sillyoldtwit

LOL Well you asked, so for the first time I shall go into depth regarding my philosophy. If you have read this thread from the beginning, you probably noticed that RapDaddyo and I differed greatly when it came to utilizing all the cycling acronyms. He sometimes despaired with me, calling me the feely, feely guy.
So just to reiterate; the only acronyms I'm concerned with are FTP and VO2Max and to some extent L5. I'm totally disinterested in CTL etc. Where we did agree was on HR. I'm only interested in seeing how fast my HR drops after an interval. Couldn't care less what my heart rate is during the interval and never ever even think about it out on the road (don't posses a HR monitor for the bike.)

I have been in competitive sport since the age of 7 - mostly running, and know exactly what my body can and cannot take. I once went to a yoga class and after the lesson the teacher drew me aside and said, "you know where every part of your body is, don't you?" To which I replied, "of course, doesn't everyone?" She said definitely not, and that once people close their eyes they have no idea where anything is- interesting.

I've also been doing Tai-chi for 40 years, although for 15 years I haven't bothered with the form (dance), I just do standing meditation. So I'm also aware of where everything is internally - heart, lungs, vertebrae and all bones in the wrist etc., and juggle them about through thought.

So yes, I feel everything. Having said all this, I'm not implying anyone should train employing feeling alone. The brain is a crafty old animal and tends to err on the negative side. It says things like, "you don't want to get on the trainer today and do those killer 5 minute intervals, why don't you just relax - go down to Starbucks and order yourself a 400 calorie cinnamon roll and while you're at it order a 850 calorie frappucino."

My brain does exactly that, although I tell it I'll go to Mister donuts after the workout. End of my rabbitting.
Tyson

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kant314

Unfortunately, I've had to give up the blog and pretty much the training as well.
In a nutshell, I had to go to the far east on a business trip and was required to stay longer than I expected. Hope to be back in the UK at the end of August, fingers crossed.

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wiredued

What's the difference between VO2Max and L5?... I'm also wondering do you ever train between 100% and 105% or do you always try to hit the illusive VO2Max target between 106% and 120% for 9 to 4 miniutes when you are above 100%?

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Sillyoldtwit

Oops! That should have read L6

I think I understand your question. If you look at my last (and best ever) VO2Max workout, you will see that as usual I do the first interval at 104%
then up it to 108% and go for broke on the last interval. As it turned out in the above workout, I did 117% for 8 minutes for the last interval.
However, when I start VO2 Max intervals again in September, by the end of the month I shall be doing somewhat higher figures (wattages) than the above at higher percentages. In particular the last interval will be nearer 120%.
The problem is, I'm still experimenting and don't really know what I'm capable of. For example, the 8 minutes @ 117% wasn't really taxing me, I could have gone on. Tyson

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jsirabella

KO,

I think we need to face a few facts here that may be tough pills to swallow. I speak only for myself as I have never met any of you folks outside this forum. We always talk in words of SST, V02Max and such better never in terms of life.

1) Tyson stated he has been running since he was 7 years old competitively. I do not care how old he is now, if you have been doing it for that long, even on and off you do not loose that type of conditioning. I told you once before I have a europro who rents an office here where people pay him money to train. Sometimes up to $200 per session. I see many people like Tyosn walk through the halls, all ex-runners whose knees have had it and switch to cycling and do pretty damn well. So unless I have that background you are definitely in a state of disadvantage. Next time you read a post about someone who, "I just started cycling yesterday and did 300 watts for 1 hour", ask him well what did you do before. Usually the answer is "I was state champ runner but I have not really worked out in years"...ok...yeah you are a newbie...

2) No matter how much I try and sugar coat it I am a weekend warrior. I do not have the time to focus on all the details involved in taking it to the highest level. For me that means the proper nutrition and the proper recovery. Recovery is not going straight to the office after a long workout or going out with the family and nutrition is very difficult in the office no matter how many meals I take to work. Lets not talk about family and business trips. I have not looked through all of Tyson thread to know what he does for a living or is retired?

3) Given points 1 and 2, lets me put the death nail into me by cross training. We have said it a million times and a million times over. Cross training will not help you but will more than likely hurt you in the long run. Tiger Woods is Tiger Woods becuase all he has been doing pretty much everyday of his life is play golf. You want to get better at playing golf, play more golf! All the deadlifts in the world are not going to make me a better cyclist.

4) Tyson stated he has done 15 years of taichi and knows all the parts of his body and how they work and can control them. I am going to assume the statement is true as I have met very few people who can do it but the ones I have met can do some pretty amazing stuff. The one guy I do know personally has the same story of many I have met who make similar claims. The story goes I was really into X, took up Y (y being yoga or other mind body thing) and now I can do anything. The guy I knew would talk endlessly to me about every muscle when he did a lift. As an fyi, he was able to do single armed pull ups with a 150 dunbbell between his legs for 5 reps!! What I found with these guys they were able to control the muscle but more the pain involved.

5) Time. Some will progress faster than other. I need to be patient. I am paying for it now with my physical crash and have done in the past. I need to take success as my body is willing to deliver it sometimes. As an fyi, finally got back on the bike this week, yesterday my body let me know I will need more time to get back. I did 3 x20 at 230 for a complete 2 hour ride. On the last 2 minutes of the last interval a sharp pain started to shoot through my leg right into the bottom of my foot. As I got off the bike I though I brole a bone in my foot, lucky I was wrong and was just a pull and was able to walk it off throughout the day but was very sore. Today during deadlifts, knees said at 225, no more or pay for it later. I stopped and went to the t-bar. I will comeback soon enough and probably be stronger than I was before but I need time and to be patient. I can tell from your personality and mine that unless we are going for new highs we get bored easily.

6) Lately on a techie note I am trying new things as someone smarter than me on these boards told me. Just because the pros or lance did it, it does not mean it is the right way for you. I recently switched to a 50 chainring and 11-21 cassette. I have noticed my power numbers and speeds prior to my crash increase quite well in CP. I have decided that a 90 or higher cadence does not has to be kept all the time. I have been letting my cadence go to below 80 in the large gear and pushing it through. I have seen better power number and better speed. I mean Jan didn't do that poorly IMHO and not for Lance more people would be preaching how we should all ride like Jan.

I can go on and on but I really feel I pretty soon have to say to myself am I willing to commit, drop the rest and make this my goal or do I want to continue on the path I am on. All the V02Max, SST and other stuff is all periphal unless mentally I want this to be it for me...and willing to deal with the idea that I may fail at it.

Just some things to think about while you are recovering dealing with traffic, family, the client calling you on the phone, the boss breatihing down your neck, the papers you need to file with the court and that one hour you will get after dinner or before that will be all yours....

-js

wiredued

Thanks Tyson that does answer the question I have found 100% to 105% to be no more effective than 96% workouts so I don't spend to much time there now. It looks like you use it as a border line VO2Max for your first attempt and make up for it on the last interval.

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Felt_Rider

Definately things to make one think.

I had mentioned fatigue and it seems like my two compadres that cross train have been struggling with over reaching a little as well. It definately takes its toll trying to balance between different training events and it was a challenge that excited me when I started several years ago.

The guys at Science of Sports put on their blog about training errors and mention zero to hero. Lately I fit into that category because in my eagerness to gain in cycling I lost sight that progress happens in incremental steps and my body can only handle so much load at a time. In other words as much as I would love to a recreational rider with Cat2 ability its just not going to happen with only 2 years of cycling training and no previous years of endurance training at all. Like you said JS, it is different when someone already has some background in endurance and then switches over to another event. There may be some difference, but at least it is not starting at zero. That being said I believe I have recovered and now I am going back to working SST and wait for my body to adapt incrementally.

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Sillyoldtwit

[QUOTE=jsirabella]KO,





LOL Js. You've probably hit the nail bang on the head there. The ability to push yourself is not something that comes naturally, it is nurtured through years of doing just that. And BTW, I'm 66 on the 12th August and my knees are far from shot. An acupuncturist told me he couldn't believe the state my knees were in considering all the running I had done. (put it down to the genes again. )

Just to put you in the picture; I am officially retired as far as the UK is concerned and my pension money is paid into an English bank account where it languishes awaiting the next big investment - a Quarq powermeter and possible a new bike.

As for Japan, I teach about 5 one hour English lessons a week in my home. (no wasted travelling time) I also do proofreading of technical documents for Toyota etc. This all comes in on my computer, so again no wasted travelling time. The amount of work coming in varies from month to month, however, it doesn't take up that much time.
In other words I have loads of free time to cycle, rest, visit coffee shops and generally potter around listening to music and podcasts on my iPod. Also watch the occasional movie on my iPod in Starbucks, sometimes falling fast asleep after a hard workout on the CT.
Great life if you can get it, isn't it? Tyson

P.S. My wife works full time as a translator, and so she should, being 24 years younger than me. She's got to take care of her frail old man.

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Piotr

Tyson, you stud!

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Sillyoldtwit

I've always maintained that women are no different from cars, when they get old, you trade them in for a new model. I mean, what self-respecting male wants to be seen hanging around with an old banger.

Phew! After that comment, am I glad that Lucy is no longer around.! Tyson

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