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07-05.-2008, 11:30 AM
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#2296 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: IN PEACE AND QUIET
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
I look forward to seeing your TT result. Interesting that you think you have a higher FTP outdoors. I unfortunately have no idea what sort of power I am able to generate outdoors until I get my powermeter later on this year. Have decided upon the Quarq, however, apparently it won't be ready for Japan until later on this year according to James at Quarq. I can't remember if you've ever told us your age, but I'm sure you're somewhat younger than this geriatric, and I expect you to easily exceed my FTP number. 
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07-05.-2008, 11:47 AM
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#2297 | |
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
Nice to know one or two missed me.  JS, I have to confess that I've changed my workouts to a great extent. I realized that I wasn't getting enough time out on the road so my training goes something like this now: Mon VO2Max and finish - no cruising @ 220Watts Tue As RapDaddyo said 20 minutes of hard work is not actually a workout it's a warmup. So I go out and do either my 58km or 80km course depending on how I feel after 1 hour. Wed Off Thur 1x30 @ L4 1x10 @ L4 Prefer the above to 2x20 Fri Off Sat or sometimes Sunday 80Km course Then repeat. The real test of course is in June when I hope to put many of the 300 riders behind me. Anyway, keep at it JS you can only improve. Tyson
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08-05.-2008, 03:13 AM
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#2298 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 564
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Thanks for giving me your training schedule. You are definitely logging in the time and the miles but making a schedule that gives you two days off a week. I hope you do not mind but I may steal a little of your schedule for myself.
 I now have the CTL so I hope by giving myself one light day and one day completely off the bike I can start to work even higher end and hopefully CTL will not suffer that much. Someone should be documenting you....  -js Quote:
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08-05.-2008, 09:28 PM
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#2299 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 244
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Re: It's killing me but..........
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Including me  I have ordered my new bike to replace my 10 year old Cannondale. I hope to use it when my FTP goes above 300 watt I don't want that people twice my age will drop me easily on a hill climb Nice job Tyson. Keep it going! 325 watts @ 72 kg for you at the end of May?
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My latest power profile: 5SP: 16.3w/kg | 1MP: 7.7w/kg | 5MP 5.8w/kg | FTP 4.7w/kg Cycling Forum.info |
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09-05.-2008, 08:17 PM
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#2300 | |
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Re: It's killing me but..........
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LOL Don't think I'm going to make 72 kg. Have eaten too many donuts lately. I blame it on a Canadian friend who led me astray by inviting me to Mister Donuts everyday.  Anyway, he's gone back to Canada so I should be OK. Hi there J if you're reading this. How's Canada after Japan? Tyson  Paul, don't be disappointed if your new Cannondale doesn't shoot you up to a 320W FTP overnight. Unfortunately you've still got to pedal the damn thing.
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10-05.-2008, 02:11 AM
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#2301 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Boston, USA
Posts: 643
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Re: It's killing me but..........
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19-05.-2008, 07:35 PM
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#2302 | ||
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 244
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Re: It's killing me but..........
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I see you changed your point of view? In the FTP 2008 topic I read: Quote:
I suprised myself yesterday during a 2x20minute L4 training. After 3 weeks of zero L4 trainings I decided it was time to do one, despite my painfull legs. I didn't know how hard I should pace myself, I did it on perceived effort. The first one was 320 watts for 20 minutes. After a 30 minute break with L2 (I had to ride to another area where I could ride savely for 20 minutes) I did a 20 minute all out and had an average power of 332 watts. I broke all my records Last year I did a timetrial of 13km in 18 minutes with an average power of 315 watts. Now I rode with much more power during a training. I think I have become a member of the 300 watt FTP club and 330 watt@69kg seems also possible for this year.
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My latest power profile: 5SP: 16.3w/kg | 1MP: 7.7w/kg | 5MP 5.8w/kg | FTP 4.7w/kg Cycling Forum.info |
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20-05.-2008, 01:17 PM
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#2303 | |
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
Paul, it looks like you're doing pretty well there with those figures. However, in all honesty I'm not a fan of guestimating one's FTP from a 20 minute ride or some other method of arriving at an FTP number without doing a full 1 hour ride. I suspect that some (perhaps many) of the FTPs quoted in the FTP thread would vanish if they had to test on a trainer for 1 hour. To me there's a world of difference between gearing up your mind, and body for that matter, to do 20 minutes compared to one hour. Even out on the road, unless it's a TT where you go all out, coasting for a short time to give yourself a physiological and psychological break, must help you to do the hour. With the Computrainer and other indoor trainers, there is no respite - it is gut wrenching stuff from beginning to end with no let up. Just my opinion and I'm sure others will disagree. Btw, my opinion is not specifically aimed at you. Keep up the good work! Tyson
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20-05.-2008, 02:30 PM
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#2304 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 619
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Re: It's killing me but..........
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20-05.-2008, 09:17 PM
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#2305 |
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 1,172
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Re: It's killing me but..........
I think the 1 hour TT is the best test but I have been estimating from my 3x20s since August 07 and it works good enough.
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Romans 5:10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. http://www.earnharts.com/html/reala...ecific.asp?id=3 |
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20-05.-2008, 09:48 PM
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#2306 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: The Netherlands
Posts: 244
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Tyson, I agree and disagree with you.
FTP is the average power you can sustain for 60 minutes. So by definition FTP can only be tested by a 1 hour ride with a reliable powermeter. With other measurements and tests you can estimated (not measure) a FTP. Dr Coggan has made a post with the seven deadly sins. With those 'guidelines' it is possible to estimated an FTP. In my post above I only suggest that my FTP is above the 300 watt. I don't know for sure but when I tested my FTP at 292 watts I could do 20 minute with 315 watts. Now I think that my FTP is above 300 watts because my 20mp increased with at least 17 watts. But I have to test it first offcourse, but I don't have the legs to do it soon
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My latest power profile: 5SP: 16.3w/kg | 1MP: 7.7w/kg | 5MP 5.8w/kg | FTP 4.7w/kg Cycling Forum.info |
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20-05.-2008, 10:07 PM
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#2307 | |
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Registered User
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
As I said, I wasn't aiming my post at you directly. I was speaking in general terms about dubious ways of establishing one's FTP. By definition, I think I'm correct in saying FTP is the power one can sustain for 1 hour with the last 15 minutes being hard but not impossible. Now, if one's estimating their FTP from a 20 minute interval, they don't have to go through that last 15 minute psychological separating of the men from the boys. I know that with 3 or 4 days rest I could probably do 360/370watts for 20 minutes at a real push, but I honestly think that would only be an indicator of my possible FTP. An attempted 1 hour ride on the Computrainer, would probably tell a different story. However, this is not to cast doubt on your belief that your FTP is above 300 watts. It more than likely is, so when you get your legs back, go for it and let us know. I'm sure you're capable of more than this old fogey. Tyson
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20-05.-2008, 10:15 PM
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#2308 | |
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
Hi WD, how do you know it "works good enough" if you haven't actually done the hour? In other words, what does it work good enough for - what are you comparing your estimated FTP against? Tyson
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20-05.-2008, 11:33 PM
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#2309 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 507
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Re: It's killing me but..........
Quote:
I have to agree with Tyson on this one. 20 minute intervals prepare you superbly for 20-30 minute max efforts. A steady diet of them without actually going out and doing an actual one hour TT can distort your own perception of your real FTP. IMHO, you should mix in longer intervals (30, 45, and 60) and test 3 or 4 times a year to guage your real FTP. I think that estimates from shorter intervals are great for making minor adjustments between tests, or during the racing season when you may not have the multiple days to get ready for a test , and then recover from the test in time for a race. For example, I did a test earler this year after a steady diet of 2 and 3 x 20s on the trainer. I went out too hard for the first 20 and my body expected a rest after a half hour. The last 15 minutes was mentally and physically demanding, if not excruciating. Since then, I have mixed in longer intervals and recently (2 weeks ago) did a hard hour training ride (not a test) where I unexpectantly bettered my results from my last FTP test. I felt great and was very relaxed during the entire ride. Again, that hour was no substitute for an actual TT, but I would think it would be a better benchmark to make estimates than any efforts under 45 minutes. You're other point is solid. Depending upon the length of your races, 20 minute efforts might be a much better predictor of success, i.e. shorter crits. But still it does not represent your true FTP, under the definition. If you are winning what you want to win, then FTP might be just an academic figure for you any way, and increasing your 20 minute power in multiple efforts might be better, and using those estimates to plan your training might "work good enough." I would still think though that I rider with a true FTP of 325, would, all other things being equal, be faster than someone who has estimated 325 from shorter intervals, and does not regularly train at intervals over 20 minutes. But, that is really speculation. It would still depend upon the respective riders, their overall training, lenght of the race, etc. If the race was a one hour or 40k TT, however, I would place my money on the rider that regularly tests and trains at those longer intervals. |
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21-05.-2008, 12:51 AM
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#2310 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: NYC, USA
Posts: 564
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Re: It's killing me but..........
+1 on KO and Tyson...
I agree 100% with their posts and I have found amazing improvements recently by switching to longer than 20 minute intervals. I do feel the book is pretty much on target in terms of how the 20 minute estimates your 60 minute but nothing hurts like the 60 minute test... My problem is when will you be at that perfect time to test when all the moons are aligned? I have had some strange days on the CT when I am not mentally into it but suddenly the numbers fly and the other way around. This can be the tricky part. Last I would also add what I believe Tyson said to be true, the CT is probably the most pure test because when you dial in the number it is in. YOu can get a 10 sec break here or there with different positions and changing your pedal stroke but it is not much of a break as opposed to most outdoor situations. Just IMHO... -js Quote:
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