It's killing me but..........

Sillyoldtwit

I missed this post RD. They would?!?! Some people are easily thrilled, aren't they? I put my thrill factor at around 250/260W No, I tell a lie, 280W I think would give me a certain degree of satisfaction. For the mo my current power numbers are a bit depressing. I know it takes time, so I shall have to be patient.

Horrible thought: what if I plateau out around 230W say.

Perish the thought Tyson, you're going all the way boy. And for the lurkers in the background - if I can do it so can you, so on yer bike!

RapDaddyo

Yep, they would.

I don't think the absolute number is what is important. I think simply being able to say that one has reached his or her physiological limit is a great achievement. The issue isn't whether your mountain is taller than someone else's mountain. The issue is that you reached the top of your mountain. Hey, Lance makes most of us look like pikers.

RapDaddyo

You could probably do an hour at 200w tomorrow (if you were in the middle of a Bengal Tiger preserve in India and were making a run for the gate). A true FT is set with high motivation, as in a 40K TT. So, to ride a routine training ride at 200w for a full hour means your true FT is probably a bit higher.

Sillyoldtwit

IOW without the assistance of a Bengal Tiger, you don't think I could do it.

The forecast is rain again this Sunday, if it should rain I'll go to the gym and destroy that 200W barrier just to prove you wrong!

RapDaddyo

You misunderstood my post. I am saying I think your true FT is 200w now, but that it takes high motivation to ride at one's max power for a full hour. Some people can ride a routine training ride at their MP and others need some additional motivation. Hence the Bengal Tiger reference. When you do ride a full hour at 200w in the form of a routine training ride, it means that your true 60MP (FT) is actually a bit higher than 200w!

kmavm

Amen to that. There's always someone out there pushing more W/kg than you, no matter what. Some of those people are untrained! Once I realized that the goal wasn't to beat everybody all the time, but to do what I can with what I have, I began to enjoy training, and the modest gains that it produces for me at this point in my training age, much much more.

RapDaddyo

I believe in this so strongly that I am exploring the development of a completely new TT series modeled after the NASTAR series in snow ski racing. There would be an unlimited number of "gold" medals, because they would be awarded on the basis of absolute performance rather than who comes in 1st - 2nd - 3rd.

Sillyoldtwit

Sound advice there KM. Reminds me of my powerlifting days. A skinny guy with a bit of a hunchback walked into the gym and said he wanted to start training. John the coach thought "what can I get this guy to do?" Anyway, he got him started on deadlifting. Believe it or not, this guy who had never touched a weight in his life lifted 2 and half pounds short of the British record! But no matter how much John coached him afterwards he was never able to lift a pound more. Always wondered what happened to that guy.

Back on topic. At my age I don't have any great aspirations of glory. I simply want to cycle to the best of my ability. However, without competition and setting your sights on some goal or other, liking giving your cycling partner a run for his money, completing a long gruelling ride etc., I think you might impose artificial limits on yourself and your potential.
People who have posted in this thread freely admit to being lazy with their training and motivation, a bit like me when I first found this forum. Perhaps they haven't given themselves a goal, because as I tell my students who want to learn English, if you have no real reason for studying English, you wont achieve the level you dream about. So create a good reason and adhere to it!
End of sermon, I shall now step down from the pulpit.

netscriber

My 0.02$ here. Many times there are reasons other than lack of goals that take people down the same path of demotivation. In my case my goals were always too aggresive, burning me out to such an extent both mentally and physically that it forces me to take a big break. Most of the times, coming back from this big break has been almost difficult. Yup, thats my excuse
But your point well taken. A PROPER and REALISTIC goal is a must have.

Sillyoldtwit

RD I need a little bit of advice.

I went out in the car today to find an extension to my Sunday route ready for May when I step up the mileage before, my June 4th ride. On the steepest bit of the usual course I noticed for the frst time ever there was a sign saying 15%.
Don't know if that's rated as steep.

Anyway, I digress. As I mentioned before the course I'm doing at present has a 6km climb - quite easy though. When I got to the top, instead of turning left as I usually do, I took a right turn and travelled for about a mile before taking this likely looking road on the left. Now I've lived in Japan a long time and climbed many mountains but I've never been up a road like this one. First it narrowed down to a single lane just wide enough for the car, and it wound up and up through the thickly forested mountain. God knows what I would have done if a car had come the other way.
Well this road, nay track, snaked its way up for 5 km and I was terrified I was going to go over the edge or into the deep rain gulley on the other side. I mentioned 15% above - this was worse - 15% - 20%. My ears popped twice,so you can guess how high it was. When I got to the top, at the entrance to the road down the other side there was a sign saying DANGEROUS DESCENT written in large red Chinese characters.
Anyway I survived, and I never saw a soul over the entire route.
Which brings me to my question at long last. This route only added about 10km to the present course. Would this be more beneficial than looking for a flatter route but longer in preperation for June? IOW tough course or long course?
Not even sure I could climb that route.

frenchyge

Wouldn't you have to ride back down from the clouds at some point? Personally, I'd avoid the winding single-lane roads posted as DANGEROUS DESCENTs, but then I probably haven't yet lived the long, full life that you have?

Off-topic: the road is in Japan, but they posted the warning sign in *Chinese* characters??

RapDaddyo

I don't even need to get to Part B of your post. 15% isn't steep, it's off-the-charts-steep for you at this time. Anything >10% and 200w of power means your bike speed gets too slow to ride in the saddle (<5mph), not to mention cadence (depends on your gearing). So, right away we're talking about climbing out of the saddle and/or climbing at >200w. Those are two topics we haven't even touched on, but the short answer is that climbing out of the saddle is incredibly fatiguing without the right technique and lots of practice. When you watch the pros dance up the mountains in the steep stages of the major tours, you can't see what's going on but they are using their body weight almost entirely. Their arms mainly just pivot the bike on the frame axis (to an optimal angle of 25 degrees IIRC) to position the crank directly under their center of gravity where they let their body weight drive the pedal down. Precisely at the bottom of the downstroke, they pivot the bike. Timing and balance take a lot of practice, especially at a high cadence. Newbies use their upper bodies way too much and get exhausted after ~1 min. So, a long climb out of the saddle is out of the question. Now, as to climbing >200w, you could probably climb for a few minutes at, say, 120%FT (240w). You would empty your anaerobic tank (separate energy system) within ~5mins (not sure because you haven't tested your 120%FT max duration). Again, useful for a short climb but a 5km climb at 120%FT is out of the question.

Short answer: find roads with climbs ~6%. Stay away from 10%+ grades, at least this year. Or, get a mountain bike.

curlew

Wow, the image of Basho on his "Narrow Road to the Interior" came to me when I read this. That hill would be a killer, but the chance to ride through that country "with Basho" would draw out of me the resolve to keep cranking out the training watts!

Sillyoldtwit

No it wasn't a mistake, the Japanese since time immemorial have begged, borrowed, copied or stolen just about everything in their culture. Written language is no exception. Actually Chinese Characters were brought to Japan by immigrating Chinese around the 3rd/4th century. The Chinese had developed this form of writing perhaps as early as 2000BC in the Hwang Ho (yellow river) area.
The Japanese of course have their own pronounciation for the individual characters, but in most cases the meaning is the same.

Hope that alleviates your confusion Frenchy.