Weight Loss help

2LAP

I think thay have case against McD's if thats the case. I don't remember any specific claims in the UK! How come no one chalenged the claims before it got to this stage? How come we don't have healthy eating classes in school?

2LAP

Thought you worked with computers

2WheelsGood

I gave that up a year and a half ago to go back to school full time to be a dietician. Sorry, didn't mean to imply that I was one now, but I'm working on it. Nope, I'm nothing now... just a very poor college student.

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Eric Konarske
http://www.leavethebox.com

2LAP

Good to see your joining the ranks with me and Ric on the poor student front. Just wanted to pick up on one of your earlier posts. I'm not picking holes just thought it was interesting. How long is dietetics degree? 4 years?

Originally posted by 2WheelsGood
Well rsalazar, I think you have your answer... there is no answer. At least not one that everyone can agree on. How is it that so many people can have completely opposite experiences? Well, I think it's because different people's bodys work in very different ways when it comes to diet and athletic performance.

>If you go to the literature (orginal papers and reviews) you can usualy find a consensus of opinion. Sometimes that consensus is divided between two or three hypothesis in which case +ves and -ves are provided. As a scientist you can make a reasonable choice about which are good or bad and apply to different situations. Most people do respond in similar ways to exercise and diet to people who complete a similar intervention and are compared to people in a similar population. Thats where things become confusing. Also science rarely proves something, only gives a probability of occurance. In my research as an exercise physiologist (I'm only starting out) we use p=.5.

My experience is very similar to kiwiboy's. I raced quite seriously for about 9 years following diets that all the "experts" have been pushing for years. Carbs carbs carbs! Anyway, a couple years ago, after a few years off, I had gained a couple extra pounds (about 20) and I really wanted to take it off. I decided to give low-carb a try. I wasn't concerned about performance at that point. I just wanted to lose the weight. Well, I did lose the weight. And after about 2 months of really crappy performance, something amazing happened. I started getting faster and faster until I felt better than I ever have--even during my serious racing days.

>This is good news. However low carb diets have risks that I would prefer to avoid. I push 50 to 60% of kcals from carbs, a recomendation that is approrpiate for most of the population including athletes. All of the benefits you describe can be acheived on such a diet; without the crap performances.

The "experts" like ricstern can tell you it's rubbish, but my advice is to do some research for yourself and see what works for YOU. For every expert you find, there is another with the complete opposite opinion. It's the nature of the business.

>What works for one individual will ususaly work for another individual!!! We all have similar physiology as we are all humans and share pretty much the same genes. I admit there is some variability; lots of the variablity in nutrition can be explained by what people think they are eating and what they are actualy eating. As a dietition in the making you will appreciate the many 'diet myths' and problems associated with measuring dietary 'needs' and actual intakes. Diets are nutoriously difficult to measure and thats where many problems start.

No joke: The results for me were so mind-blowing that I recently walked away from my comfortable computer job to go back to school for a degree in nutrition. When I'm done with that, I hope to work with athletes in situations like yours. It was that huge for me. I sure wish I hadn't listened to all the "experts" for so many years.

>Congrats on starting the course. When you are qualified and dare I say it an 'expert', you'll find that 1. people misunderstand what their told, 2. only follow the attractive parts of your advice, 3. listen to you and three others and mix up the advice and 4. don't do what they are told and tell you they are!!! As with anything you have to commit 100% and people don't; that can give you a bad name when providing advice as people think its bad advice. I am sure that you gave 110% to the diet that worked (you kept it up for 2 months+) and gave a lot less to any previous diets. Perhaps if you had worked with 1 expert rather than "listened to all the 'experts' for years" the results would have been different. You mention ric by name and if you check all 300+ of his posts you wont be able to find advice that he isn't willing or able to support with sound evidence.

I'm tellin' ya... take people's suggestions (everyone's!) with a grain of salt. There are no "experts" in this field. The closest thing we've got to experts are those open-minded enough to consider all the possibilities. Those people, unfortunately, are very rare.

>There are experts in nutrition and you're training to join them!!! There are many oposing opinions, but just as many agreements in the literature. As an expert people will call on you to make a decision for them (and pay you for it). There are lots of diet possibilities, however some are better than others and some carry big risks. At the moment the 'best' diet for most (i.e. non-clinical) people seems to be a balanced diet; with calorie control and exercise for weight loss.

2WheelsGood

5 years, more or less. It's a 4 year degree, then a required one year internship before you can take the exam to be a dietician.



Absolutely not true. If it was, we wouldn't see some people who are 300 pounds and can barely lose weight, and 150 pound people who can barely gain weight. There are huge physiological differences between people when it comes to metabolising food. Some people are extremely sensitive to sugar, some people aren't. Some people are lactose intollerant, some people aren't. Some people have food alergies, some people don't. I have a good article on metabolic typing, but I can't seem to find it right now. I'll post it if I can ever find it. To assume there is a "one size fits all" approach for athletes is, in my opinion, wildly wrong.



I mentioned ric by name for two reasons. For one, he's the one who called Atkins rubbish. The other is that he's a coach and a contributor to cyclingnews. In my mind that is a position of responsibility. A responsibility to not dismiss something like Atkins as rubbish. Pick it apart, fine, but to just say it's rubbish is lame. That helps nobody.



This brings us back to the original point. "At the moment" and "seems" are key. There is still so much not known that anyone who thinks they've got it all figured out, is sadly blinded. As I stated in another thread, the discovery of insulin happened only 80 years ago. Literally, before then they didn't even know the substance existed much less what it did. That was only 80 years ago. What are we going to know in another 80? And that's what I meant by "there are no experts." Who will be the expert tomorrow?

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Eric Konarske
http://www.leavethebox.com

ric_stern/RST

Eric,

Like 2Lap i'm also an exercise physiologist (doing a PhD), which in fairness covers parts of energy metabolism and endurance cycling performance.

I can't specifically recall calling Atkins diet rubbish, but if i did, i did. I stand by that statement. I'm not keeping my eyes closed and am very interetsed in various aspects of nutrition. I realise and understand my position of responsibility but sometimes i don't have time to provide a full response (but if someone wants to employ me to just provide full response to this board, then that's fine).

Normally, as 2Lap pointed out, i do like to provide some documentary evidence to support any hypothesis, however, currently, i'm very busy and unfortunately i don't get paid to write articles on diet. I am however, trying to get an article together to try to explain some of the finer points and my thinking on this matter and why the majority of the evidence points towards a balanced diet of around 50 - 60% CHO, and a split on protein and fat.

I can't recall any resaerch that has suggested cutting fat entirely and i certainly wouldn't advocate that.

Trying to lump all CHO together as 'bad' is just plain daft, and of course i wouldn't suggest getting the majority of CHO from 'simple' type carbs. That's like saying all fats are bad (when of course some are quite ok).

In terms of cycling performance, and after all this forum comes under "racing" heading, the available evidence shows that a high CHO diet is the most optimal.

Someone mentioned that the typical US diet was 80% CHO. I find this so hard to believe that i laughed. The majority of people i coach are from north america, and they're diet is way off this.

Must start with article, just as soon as i've had some nice starchy CHO :-)

Ric

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rabalter

Only way to do it: Burn more calories by exercising combined with a lower calorie intake. Period.

jkca1

My .02.

If you really weigh 313 lbs and are 6 feet tall you should get to your doctor and have a physical. Unless you are all muscle you are very overweight. I know because I too am 6 ft tall and the "proper" weight for my height is 178 lbs according to most charts. Right now I am at 188 from a high of 197.

Anyway, see a doctor. Make sure you are healthy. Ask for help losing the weight safely. Ask to talk to a nutritionist. I am sure that everyone means well when they give advice but if you can ask an expert for help. Diets don't work nor do pills. Lose the weight safely and you can become a role model for others.

-Jim-

DurangoKid

So, what can we agree on?
1. Exercise is good. Cycling is gooder.
2. Know what you're eating. Take inventory.
3. Tweek your diet and exercise program to make slow steady changes. These are the changes that are most likely to persist.
4. Avoid extremes. Don't get too tired. Don't starve. Don't beat yourself up while in the saddle.
5. Cultivate balance.
6. Eat nutrient dense foods.
7. Learn the science behind good conditioning. Keep the brain in good shape, too.
8. Be generous. Do something nice for someone else once in a while.
9. Know when to shut up.

ric_stern/RST

Originally posted by 2WheelsGood

My experience is very similar to kiwiboy's. I raced quite seriously for about 9 years following diets that all the "experts" have been pushing for years. Carbs carbs carbs! Anyway, a couple years ago, after a few years off, I had gained a couple extra pounds (about 20) and I really wanted to take it off.

>>Surely, this (the weight gain) would be a result of overeating. Did you not modify your diet once you stopped racing seriously (i.e., decrease your overall energy intake)?


I decided to give low-carb a try.

>>Why not reduce your overall intake?

I wasn't concerned about performance at that point. I just wanted to lose the weight. Well, I did lose the weight. And after about 2 months of really crappy performance, something amazing happened. I started getting faster and faster until I felt better than I ever have--even during my serious racing days.

>>it would be impossible to know whether you're faster because of increased fitness or some other factor(s).


The "experts" like ricstern can tell you it's rubbish, but my advice is to do some research for yourself and see what works for YOU. For every expert you find, there is another with the complete opposite opinion. It's the nature of the business.

>>Actually, the overwhelming majority of peer reviewed scienific opinion is that of a balanced diet -- as 2Lap and myself have pointed out.


No joke: The results for me were so mind-blowing that I recently walked away from my comfortable computer job to go back to school for a degree in nutrition. When I'm done with that, I hope to work with athletes in situations like yours. It was that huge for me. I sure wish I hadn't listened to all the "experts" for so many years.

I'm tellin' ya... take people's suggestions (everyone's!) with a grain of salt. There are no "experts" in this field. The closest thing we've got to experts are those open-minded enough to consider all the possibilities. Those people, unfortunately, are very rare.

>>What's amazing is that you are suggesting/implying that you are open minded for being interested in alternative nutrition (e.g., low carb), but you are in fact very closed minded about a sensible balanced diet. bizarre. It's interesting how you can make such sweeping statements when you have only really just begun your education.

Ric

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2WheelsGood

Very interesting. You just made something up that not only did I NOT say, but I never even implied. I know your time is precious, but please take a couple minutes to quote something--anything--that I said that would suggest that I'm closed-minded about a sensible diet (however that's defined).

I've stated many times now that I don't subscribe to, or push, or endorse ANY particular diet. And that my experience with a low-carb diet served as nothing more than a catalyst to pique my interest in learning more about nutrition. I certainly never suggested that low-carb diets are some sort of panacea. I could say it again, but I have a feeling it'll fall on deaf ears.

I'll wait patiently for that quote. Good luck.

__________________
Eric Konarske
http://www.leavethebox.com

kiwiboy

I think if you are doing a good dump in the morning you have a high fibre diet and reduce the sugar intake increase raw foods you are off to a good start, excerise is still the key stone in ones health as we all are aware.

I was reading an article in a medical journal, they gave people from western society and people from Africa these special pills that don't dissolve then timed how long it took each group to pass the little sucker ( they also weighed the dump...imagine being the guy who does that...!!!) The results were very interesting the African people who lived off high grain diets with high fibre passed it real quick, us eurpoeans on the other hand .....well lets say allot longer.

many beleive this slow time through the gut causes reabsorbtion of waste. You only have to look after someone who has been constipated for awhile to see the bad effects it has on them.
Also the weights were very different, one was way heavier.

So here's to big dumps and high fibre!!!!!!

kiwiboy

The point we are all finding is science has no answer, if we did then I beleive we would have less sickness.

I beleive nutrition is next stage in modern medicine as more studies are conducted on nutrition related illness we will all learn more.

Unfortunately many people in science are not open to change especally in medicine

jttessaroo

Hello, I am new to this forum. I was interested in this topic because I am type 2 diabetic and MUST exercise. I used to ride bicycles everywhere when I was younger (no car in Southern California!!) Now I have a car and diabetes. As to the Atkins diet, I tried it and lost a whopping 4 lbs in the first two weeks. My blood sugar dropped, though. I suspect that would happen if I ate dirt.