Weight Loss help

davidbod

Well I can’t resist adding my own experience here. About 20 months ago I decided to get back into serious road cycling to lose weight and get into better cardio shape as I was approaching 40. I was at 235 lbs and BMI of about 34, obese, when I started. Over the first 18 months through diet modification and heavy training I lost 15 lbs and built up to a cycling level between the fastest and second fastest sub-groups within my weekend riding groups. I had definitely hit a plateau though.

Frustrated I decided to go for a major diet change. After much research and second hand experience of friends I decided to try Atkins. First let me say that Atkins is an extreme diet when you are in the induction phase and that like any diet it is not for everyone. Also a lot of the negative comments about the Atkins diet are plain conjecture or based on partial knowledge of what an Atkins diet really is. For example past the induction phase the Atkins diet is not extreme at all and begins to look more and more like a traditional balanced diet, but with a few restrictions.

Science wise we can all agree that to lose weight you must burn more calories than you take in. If that were all that mattered we could eat 2500 calories of Twinkies for breakfast, burn 3000 during the day and lose an appropriate amount of weight. I think we can also all agree that this would not be a good idea.

As far as energy goes our bodies have a natural preference for carbs as the process of converting carbs to glycogen and storing this at the cell level through blood insulin is our most efficient way of obtaining energy. Not surprisingly our bodies least favorite and most expensive way of obtaining energy is through the break down of fats. Another little nasty is that our bodies are very good at storing excess carb intake as fat. This should not be surprising as our bodies have evolved to be this way over time as up until the last century the availability of food was no where near what it is now.

So if you can imagine what happens on a normal balanced diet where you are burning more calories than you consume and most of these calories are coming from carbs, you reach a point after every meal where your body transitions from primary energy of glycogen from carbs to more and more energy produced from fats. This is the whole idea of traditional weight loss, to deplete your glycogen stores so you burn more fat. The problem with this is that your body doesn’t want to burn fat, it wants to store it for emergency use later. This is where your body is signaling you between meals that your hungry and you need to eat more carbs, i.e. carb cravings.

There’s nothing wrong with this method, and plenty of people have lost weight doing this, its just dam difficult to maintain if your BMI is 30+ and you need to sustain it for months on end. It would be much more appropriate for candidates who need to lose 5-10 pounds rather than 50-100+.

So how does Atkins differ? To start off with in the induction phase you limit your daily carb intake to 20 grams. This begins to immediately deplete your glycogen stores so that in a matter of days your body transitions from primary energy from glycogen to primary energy from fat components. Once your body has transitioned and your no longer yo-yoing your blood sugar, the cravings for carbs go away once and do not return, you feel satisfied between meals and you lose weight. There are several advantages to this that even some scientifically trained people still refuse to believe:

1.Because it costs your body more energy to convert fats to useable energy, you lose more energy (i.e. weight) burning the equivalent calories of fats vs. carbs.
2. Burning nearly exclusively fat components triggers signals in your body to suppress hunger.
3. The processes within your body that allow it to use fat components as energy reduce bad cholesterol.
4. If you are losing weight then every gram of fat that you intake into your diet is being converted and burned and then some.

The reality is I have lost 20 additional pounds in the last 2 months alone and I no longer get dropped by the fastest group on my weekend ride. I was very strict the first 2 weeks during induction and did not ride because of my low carb intake. The 3rd through 5th weeks I did some minor carb loading on Thursday and Friday before my usual Saturday ride and had no problems, but didn’t lose as much weight (I was afraid of bonking). The last several weeks I have gone into my Saturday rides with no extra carbs except for half water half sports drink in my bottles. These rides were around 52, 63 and 46 miles and averaged between 19.5 and 21.2. My heart rate data also indicated that I was above 85% max for more than 2/3 of the ride time in each case (this is normal for me). The point here is that I didn’t come close to bonking with virtually 0 carbs and at a level where I spent 2/3 of the ride time at or very near lactate threshold. This would completely seem to contradict the long-standing belief that you would bonk without having carbs during such efforts.

Take this as you will. All I can say is I understand the science behind it and in reality it has worked for me. In fact the items I have eliminated from my diet do not seem extreme in any way. Apart from more egg and bacon/sausage breakfasts my diet is mostly salads, non-root vegetables and lean proteins for lunch and dinner. The only items that worried me to eliminate them from my diet were milk (calcium) and juices (vitamin C). I supplement for these as needed depending on my daily intake.

One other point is that you can go to the Atkins website and research to learn all about the diet and it won’t cost you a penny, it’s completely free.

DurangoKid

davebod,

I've been majorly flamed for praising Atkins on this forum. Thanks for the posting. I am a former couch potato who lost 40 lbs through restricting carb intake as directed by Atkins. It works for me. And so does cycling. Much of what people know about nutrition has been invented by agribusiness corporations and the revolving door agencies that are supposed to regulate them. The feedstocks for high carb foods are cheap and the profits are enormous. The science supports low carb diets. Is it any wonder these institutions push diets that cause disease when they are the same entities that make their fortunes from treating the victims? And then they have the gall to blame the victims of the media blitz that tells them to eat carbs and fear fats. In some neighborhoods one can walk to a McDonald's but you have to drive to a store that sells whole foods. These are the priorities set by the people who rule society. So, for me cycling and eating low carb whole foods is a revolutionary act. My fitness speaks for itself.

__________________
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

Shazabelle

There's nothing wrong with the carbs themselves carbohydrates are a great source of energy and will fill you up, it's what you do with them and what you serve them with that can make them "bad". Potatoes, pasta, rice are all really good low in fat foods, it's when you fry the potatoes or smother the pasta in a creamy sauce that they start to be loaded with calories and fat. Try and stick to plain potatoes, baked, boiled, mashed - pasta in tomato based sauces, with lots of vegetables - you can use lots of spices and herbs to make things nice and tasty, try to steer clear from using cream or cheese to add flavour cause that'll up the fat & calorie content. High fibre high carb is the way to go I reckon ! Best of luck with it

stevek

Potatoes and grains don't have many calories? the problem with grains is they are empty calories. the whole low fat idea was a marking ply and had nothing based on real facts. but when you mix fat and carbs you have problems. by themselves they are far better.
but you want to be filled eat fat it will keep you full far longer then any carbs ever will. some poeple on a low carb diet are too full to eat enough food.
myself I now don't worry much about fat but I don't eat grains very often. but I do eat a lot of fruits for them. my body does not seem to get enough energy on fat.
if people jsut cut out or cut way down on grains and sugar we would see a huge benifit overal in health.
fat has been a human food all along complex carbs such as grains are a new thing and they have shown the problems they cause like tooth decay and other medical conditions that did not show up before humans became farmers.

Shazabelle

I can't believe you think grains are bad ! look at the asian population who live mostly on rice ?! it's only when they start eating western food that they start getting our diseases and problems.

stevek

The Asian people eat a lot of veggies and fruits and fresh meats and such. The food is not processed and full of garbage. Plus they have eaten it for a very long time. Plus they work harder and take better care of themselves. The grains we have in the us are grown for what they can do when cooked not for the nutritional content.
Just look at a label and see how little is there per calorie. Grains are cheep and plentiful.
Hell no animal in the world eat grains in the wild. Some eat seeds but not grains.
If we eat grains they need to be as whole as possible.
Even our beloved food pyramid was concocted not by doctors but by corporations. But doc’s now follow it like gospel.
We have been scammed by marketing to think fat is evil and grains are fantastic. Well if the truth comes out we may see a different light.
I am not saying I think a real low carb diet is ideal. Just one cutting out the grains and sugars we eat.

DurangoKid

Cutting out the grains and sugars IS the low carb diet.

__________________
A man that should call everything by its right name would hardly pass the streets without being knocked down as a common enemy. –Lord Halifax

stevek

depends on the version. under about 100 carbs is a low carb diet. but eating a lot of regular fruit is not on most of the really low carb diet plans.

davidbod

Try this as an example lunch or dinner.

Option 1:
12 Asparagus spears
1 cup of cooked green beans
1 cup of cooked broccoli
8oz of lean turkey breast

Option 2:
1/2 cup cooked white rice
1/2 cup of cooked white potato
1/2 cup of cooked pasta
8oz of lean turkey breast

First notice that option 1 has a much higher quantity of food and is going to fill you up more. There is nothing added for flavor to either of these meals. Now lets count the grams:

Option Fiber Net-Carbs Fat Protien Calories
1 11.4g 14.0g 3.6g 90.6g 487
2 3.0g 54.4g 2.8g 85.8g 623

Now notice that the fat and protien content for both meals are actually very similar while the fiber, net-carbs and calories are quite different. Anything we do to prepare the food for either option to make it more pallatable is going to add to the net-carbs, fat or both (and the calories).

So if you were trying to lose weight, or for that matter just eat healthier which meal looks better? Does this tell you anything about the miss-information on the Atkins diet? Where is the fat? Oh, it's higher in fiber too?

Now the story doesn't end here either. The rice, potato and pasta are simple carbs and break down in our bodies very rapidy to glycogen with very little energy loss. This rapid rise in glycogen unless needed immediately to replenish stores then triggers our bodies to go into fat storing mode. If your trying to lose weight this is exactly what you don't want going on in your body.

Remember we are talking about people who are already fat. If your not fat and your glycogen stores are low due to exercise and can use all the carbs in option 2 without putting your body into fat storing mode then your fine. You would still be better off eating complex carbs like whole wheat pasta and grains which require longer time and more energy to convert to glycogen though.

The bottom line is if your a seasoned racer with a very low body fat percentage and you have just completed a serious glycogen depleting effort, you can and maybe even should eat the simple carbs to begin immediate glycogen store replensishing. If your BMI is in the high 20s+ and your trying to lose weight then you should absolutley stay away from them.

rickstrong

Carbs are fine, you don't have to give up anything. You just need to balance and limit your intake and up your biking. As a veteran of many diets and exercise regimens I found that Weight Watchers and biking worked best for me. WW is balanced, flexible, uses normal foods (you don't have to buy expensive prepared dishes) and lets you find the right mix of carbs, protein, etc for your metabolism...you can skew the mix a bit towards one or the other to find your optimum combination. No prohibitions WRT food groups, desserts, etc - you just have to keep track of what you're doing and stay within the limits. (But of course learning moderation can be the hard part!)

I'm not an employee, but a satisfied end-user. I was in almost the same position as you a few years ago, lost almost 40 lbs and did my first century and loved it a little more than a year ago. You can't beat the combination of balanced and moderate eating and regular aerobic exercise.

veith

Low carb diets are not a good idea for athletes or those that exercise regularly. Balanced diets that are low in fat work best for me. I recently lost 25 pounds on a diet that was composed roughly of 2200 calories per day that was 65% carbs, 20% fat and 15% protein. I rode my bike regularly. Combining exercise and sensible calorie control is the best approach. Suggest you compute your daily caloric needs and then keep a log to roughly record your daily intake. There are some good computer programs, such as CalorieKing (Calorieking.com) that help and are easy to use. Diet logging is a bit laborious, but to the motivated it is a great way to manage your diet and get daily feedback as to how you are doing against your goals. If you consume fewer calories than you expend, overtime you will lose weight. The best pace is about 1-2 pounds of weight loss per week, on average. It is a slow process, but it works. Suggest you read Sports Nutrition Guidebook by Nancy Clark. Ms. Clark is a sports nutritionist who sticks pretty much to common nutritional wisdom.

David Wallach

I think the point is being missed here. He didnt ask how to maintain his weight, or how to do an iso-caloric diet, as he has made repectable losses with that already.

You want to break through a plateau.

A CKG will do that for you, without doubt, but Ketogenic diets require a no bull**** approach to cheating. You can't. You cheat, you derail the whole process and in so doing you will certainly feel awful. A body that has little or no glycogen stored in muscle or liver that bounces out of ketosis every time you cheat will be a weak and lethargic body. The process of yo-yo'ing in and out of ketosis will also mess with you mental faculties in a big way: you will notice a marked change in you problem solving ability, which is bad for just about any profession.... unless of course you work for the GOP ;-)

The other option that allows for some lapses in judgement and still produces very positive results is with a moderate carb diet that includes NO sucrose or fructose (yes, fruit is the devil when it comes to how insulin effects fat storage) is to partition your carbs directly to muscle tissue rather than to adipose tissue. Impossible you say?!? BAH, you read too much readers digest diet plans and not enough nutrition information. (R+)LIPOIC ACID will do just that... at approximately 30mg for every 100gm of carbs ingested, it will allow your muscles to absorb many times the average amount of glucose, where it can be used up efficiently for work.

So.... to make a long story short: CKG diets are fantastic, but if you dont have the deadication, don't bother, you will not be making the most efficient use of your time. If you want an easier, and very efficient method, get a well tested R-ALA supplement and use it before meals with Biotin (500 mcg/per 100mg of Lipoic acid). Do not use R-ALA supps that do not contain Biotin, as Lipoic acid depletes vitaminB storage. Then, once you have reached your goal weight/LBM-BF%, go back to a healthy Iso-caloric regimen that is fun to eat.

any questions, feel free to ask, It makes me feel like I am actually using all that money I spent on college... ;-)

regards,

David

OHsingltrakr

After a lot of reading about a lot diets for a several months I set out on a plan 2 years ago to lose about 100lbs. Like so many things in life, I felt many of the so-called fad diets had some generally good ideas they were based on. These fads really tend to focus on their one big idea but in general similar trends are repeated over and over looking at several diets. These are over an overall colorie reduction to a sensible amount for your body and activity level, a focus on frequently eating small amounts of quality fats, proteins and carbs in a good balance to keep insulin levels low, stave off hunger and the binging that follows, and to provide good nutrition. Throw in some regular exercise and it sounds a lot like what your mother and your doctor has been telling you all along, regardless of what the infomercial of the week is trying to sell you. I stuck to a lot of fat free dairy, lean turkey and fish and plant fats combined with lots and lots of produce. I kept myself limited to two servings of high quality carb daily, one morning and one for lunch. I ate approximately 1500 calories a day for almost a year and averaged a weight loss of about 2 lbs. a week on average, dropping my weight from 267 to about 170 and dropped my cholesterol quite a bit to a well balanced total lipid count of 136 last tested. The first four months were hard and I often felt tired but my body adapted, my physical condition improved and cycling really improved from neighborhood rides only to banging out centuries and long days on the mountain bike no problem. I really felt the combination of the low glycemic eating combined with calorie reduction was a winning combination, having struggled with weight my entire life. I'm in my 30's now. The down side is all those new clothes you'll have to buy and of course you'll need at least two much better bicycles than you have now. The fad diet guys never mentioned these hidden costs. Jokes aside it seems like a lot of these diets had some common sense behind them in part, but it gets lost in all the marketing trying to sell you a bunch of crap to count calories, and plan meals that you could accomplish with a notebook, a scale, both for you and one in the kitchen for measuring, and some cookbooks from the library. Anyway, good luck to everyone in their weight loss endeavours!

davidbod

See the following links:

http://www.ketosis-ketoacidosis-difference.com/
http://www.i-sis.org.uk/isisnews/i-sisnews9-25.php

The first one is on ketosis and the second one explains some new research on how ketones are thought to protect neurons from the process that induces Parkinson's and limit the accumulation of proteins in the brain that happens to Alzheimer's patients.

The research shows that 90% of our tissue will happily fuel itself on ketones and that ketosis is a natural physiological process that each one of us enters as we sleep overnight when food intake is cut off.

The Yo-Yo'ing I'm talking about is going from low to high blood sugar after a high carbo (particualrly simple carbo) loaded meal which triggers your body to go into fat storing mode due to the excess glycogen. By the way when you are in ketosis and your body has produced excess ketone bodies that it can't immediately use as energy, they get flushed out into your urine. This is a huge difference than the other end of the spectrum where excess glycogen is being stored as fat.

The research also shows that when you eat carbs while you are in ketosis you have a much more controlled insulin response to the carbs and the combination of ketone bodies and insulin improve brain and heart efficiency. The two processes of burning fat and glycogen can and do occur simultaneously in the body, there is no yo-yo effect between the 2.

Whether you do low carb or moderate carb, once you have reached ketosis, its just a matter of varying degrees of how much your body is fueling itself on glycogen vs ketones. As long as you stay away from the side of the process that generates excess glycogen to trigger your fat storing your OK. Its just a matter of how much weight you want to lose over a given time period and whether you will feel better on a low or moderate carb diet.