Page 6 - Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

04-01.-2006, 09:23 AM

#76

limerickman

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Dublin was bombed on May 30, 1941. Isn't that provocation enough to go to war?

Dublin was bombed by the Luftwaffe - the Nazi's always claimed that this bombing was done by mistake and stated so in the immediate aftermath of the attack.
This attack took place during the final stage of the Battle of Britain.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

But to say that all efforts were equal is wrong. The US was a major contributor to winning the war. The US had factories that were out of reach of the Germans and Japanese. These factories supplied a great amount of the war materials used by the Allies including the Soviets. Just because the Soviets lost more men than the US doesn't mean then contributed more. The US didn't have morons for military leaders that sacrificed men just because they had a lot of them. Soviets didn't try to enter the Pacific war until it was nearly over. The US made major contributions to both theaters of war. The US basically defeated the Japanese single handedly. Most Americans just want to be respected for the sacrifices that we made for others in WW2.

No one suggested that the US didn't play a very central role in WWII.
The USA did and I know from speaking with one US veteran with whom I used to be in regular contact in Ga., that the US vets got full recognition from
many many Europeans who were under Nazi occupation.

But to suggest that the US solely "liberated Europe" is inaccurate.

In respect of the war in the Pacific : yes the USA did play a very major part in that as well.
As did the Aussies and the New Zealanders, Malaysians, British.

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04-01.-2006, 09:42 AM

#77

darkboong

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Does that justify a Soviet invasion?

Of course not, but you got your facts wrong regarding Talvisota.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

No we are talking about contributions that led to the end of the war. We can talk about the

Not quite. You were claiming the Europeans didn't fight in the Pacific theatre, they most certainly did (although as you point out they got clobbered at the start). If you want to restrict it to contributions that ended the war, the British scientists who worked on the Manhattan project, provided Radar and code-breaking to the Americans would count.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Really! Stalin allowed British troops to fight with the Soviets?

The RAF provided support for a few operations and delivered and protected supplies (including Hurricanes and Spitfires). The US provided P-39s and B-25s which had been rejected as poorly armored and underperforming for combat in the European Theatre.

That said at least one Russian Ace flew a P-39.

04-01.-2006, 09:47 AM

#78

darkboong

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Dublin was bombed by the Luftwaffe - the Nazi's always claimed that this bombing was done by mistake and stated so in the immediate aftermath of the attack.

You've got to admit that excuse sounds a bit thin Lim. Their bombers were struggling to reach British targets, they would have needed to have fueled the planes up for the extra mileage and pretty much throw out everything that wasn't nailed down for a start.

04-01.-2006, 11:09 AM

#79

EoinC

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

I knew I'd hear it from the Aussies and NZ. They definitely contributed to the defeat of Japan. However, the US was the major contributor in defeating Japan. The US fought island to island to get close enough to bomb Japan.

CR, if you still don't realise that the "singlehanded" comment is bullshit, you really do need to do a little more research on what happened throughout the Pacific Theatre (and not just contain it to the areas where American Forces were involved). The US Forces fought "island to island" in conjunction with a lot of other people. It would be nice to see you pay a little more respect to those people. The fight to overcome the Japanese was not just John Wayne in Iwo Jima.
In terms of numbers, USA was the largest contributor. In terms of effort and sacrifice, not necessarily so. You make the point that 10% of your population joined up - 12.5% of ours did, with another 6.25% taking up arms for home defence, and that was without us being attacked.
I, personally, thank all of those who took part, regardless of where they came from. I don't know any WW2 Vet's who would claim that anything was done singlehandedly when it came to defeating the Axis Powers. It surprises me that this is your view of how the victory came about.

04-01.-2006, 12:09 PM

#80

EoinC

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

...12.5% of ours did...

Correction - 18.4% of our population. No wonder things were difficult back on the farms.
( Ref. http://www.awm.gov.au/atwar/statistics/ww2.htm )

04-01.-2006, 04:37 PM

#81

stevebaby

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

You acknowledge that your government behaved cowardly during WWII.

You have still not given one reason why Americans should have fought in a war started by europeans and fought in europe.

You and Darkboong says Americans don't know history. Apparently neither do either of you. America in the 1930's was very isolationist. Public sentiment was that the war in europe was a european affair. It should be settled by europeans. Again, one reason why Americans should have fought in a european war.

Not true. The US declared war on Japan on December 8th. Roosevelt didn't include Germany. Germany had not attacked the US. Germany declared war on the US on December 11th.

"one reason why americans should have fought in a european war"?
"Germany declared war on the us on december 11th"
You have answered your own question.

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05-01.-2006, 01:17 AM

#82

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

Sure the Australians, Kiwis, British, and a few others fought. The lionshare of the work was left to the Americans. The Australians, Kiwis, Brits stood no chance of beating the Japanese on their own. The US could have beaten Japan without any other help.

05-01.-2006, 01:38 AM

#83

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

Of course not, but you got your facts wrong regarding Talvisota.

Did the Soviets not invade Finland? What other facts are pertinent? The Soviets saw a chance to get some land back that they lost.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

The Americans had already broken the Japanese code before the war. Likewise the British had broken the German code.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

Can you provide a source for the RAF flying combat support for Soviet military operations?
The P-39 was well armored but was considered to slow and unmaneuverable for the US and British. It turned out well suited for ground support and tank busting.

05-01.-2006, 01:59 AM

#84

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

No one suggested that the US didn't play a very central role in WWII. The USA did and I know from speaking with one US veteran with whom I used to be in regular contact in Ga., that the US vets got full recognition from many many Europeans who were under Nazi occupation.

But to suggest that the US solely "liberated Europe" is inaccurate.

In respect of the war in the Pacific : yes the USA did play a very major part in that as well.
As did the Aussies and the New Zealanders, Malaysians, British.

I never said the US "solely" liberated europe. My response was to insinuations that American involvement was somehow less honorable that any other country.
Or the theory that the American contribution was equal to all other allied countries. Only one country can claim to be equal to the US in contribution to the european war and that is Russia. And in the Pacific theater no other country can even come close to claiming an equal share of the victory.

05-01.-2006, 02:29 AM

#85

limerickman

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

I never stated that you said that the USA solely liberated Europe.
I stated that one of your fellow US citizens stated that the USA solely liberated Europe in this Forum.
And indeed it seems that the textbooks used in your country's education system state that your country liberated Europe.
Your country didn't liberate Europe.
Your country contributed to the liberation of Europe with allies such as USSR and Britain.

Regarding the quantification of the contribution of respective country's to the WW2 effort.
The British contribution to the liberation of Europe outstripped your country's
contribution.

05-01.-2006, 02:34 AM

#86

limerickman

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by EoinC

Eoin, part of the problem is that they're taught history in school which is factually incorrect.
Given that their country education textbooks are incorrect, it's not surprising that they post inaccurate information.

I was shocked to see a US school history text book that stated that the USA won the Vietnam war.
Given this level of inaccuracy, it's hardly surprising.

05-01.-2006, 02:36 AM

#87

limerickman

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkboong

That was the response that the Wehrmacht/Luftwaffe gave to the Irish goverment in light of the bombing.
In hindsight the excuse looks shaky but that was the explanation given.

05-01.-2006, 02:43 AM

#88

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

Regarding the quantification of the contribution of respective country's to the WW2 effort. The British contribution to the liberation of Europe outstripped your country's contribution.

How so? We supplied Britain with supplies and war material. We supplied Britain with food and necessities to survive. Without the US the Brits could only sit on their island and watch the Germans run continental europe. Sure they could have made some bombing runs. They in no way shape or form could have mounted an invasion of europe on their own.

05-01.-2006, 02:53 AM

#89

limerickman

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

While your country was making profits by supplying both sides between 1939-1941, the British were trying to defend what was left of democracy.

05-01.-2006, 02:54 AM

#90

Colorado Ryder

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Re: Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

Quote:

Originally Posted by limerickman

I'm sorry what information is incorrect? Just another case of the europeans looking down their noses at Americans.

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