Bush/Cheney have disgraced their office; they should resign

limerickman

Hold on.

You were supplying both sides.

Your country was profiteering, CR.




Our political leaders enforced Irelands state of neutrality between 1939-1945.
I do think that there was a distinct problem with the fact that Winston Churchill was PM of Britain at the time.
His activities in Ireland and his opposition to Irish national soverignty during 1918-1922 antagonised the ruling political leaders here in Ireland between 1939-1945.

It is a matter of opinion as to whether your goverment listened to public sentiment for it's stance between 1939-1941.
Yes, politicians like Hoover wanted to stay out of WWII because of the financial cost outstanding pertaining to WWI.
But many others wanted to get involved in WWII.




That's up for debate.




Politically the goverment chose not to.

5% of our population enlisted to fight though.

What percentage of your country's population enlisted to fight ?

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Colorado Ryder

Did we provide warships to the Germans? Did we provide aircraft to the Germans?


So it was more important to piss off the British than to actually stand up with the rest of the world and fight evil. Was signing the German condolence book also meant as a poke in the eye to the British?


Funny you reference Hoover. Since he was out of politics after 1932! Maybe if you read some American history rather than the european view of American history you would know that the US was very isolationist in the 1930's.


What percentage of irishmen fought at the Coral Sea, or Midway, or Guadalcanal, or Tarawa, or Iwo Jima, or the Phillipines, or Okinawa?

limerickman

Seems you grasp of Herbert Hoover's career is as inadequate as your grasp of history.

If Hoover was out of politics in 1932 as you claim.
How come Hoover was appointed the Republican Party Foreign Affairs spokesman in ther late 30's?
Hoover's speech in the aftermath of Hitlers annexation of parts of Czechoslovakia are well known.
Moravia and Bohemia speeches by Hoover in 1939 for instance.
Hoover was very active in US politics under Presidents Truman and Eisenhower too.
Strange that. for a guy who "out of politics in 1932"!

I already told you why the USA was isolationist in the 1930's.



Do we need to mention Prescott Bush and his cronies ?




Actually we did support the British to the extent that they had limited access to our ports.
Nothing official mind.

We interned Germans national living here : and any British pilots who got shot down over Ireland were handed back to Britain whereas German pilots were
interned.





I don't know.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Colorado Ryder

Not enough support though to "officially" enter the war and fight the Nazis.


1 in 10 Americans served in the war.

Colorado Ryder

My grasp is inadequate? You left out a liitle bit about Hoover. This dandy little bit of info.......

In 1940, Hoover said that Hitler's victory over Europe was assured, and what America needed was a man as President who could do business with Hitler, and who had never alienated him. This is detailed in the Charles Peters book "Five Days in Philadelphia."........

Hmmmm.....
Later Career.

Nominated for reelection in 1932, Hoover was defeated by Franklin D. Roosevelt. He wrote and spoke against Roosevelt’s New Deal, but little attention was paid to him except at Republican national conventions, where he ritually appeared every four years to be hailed as an elder statesman. Under Presidents Harry Truman and Dwight Eisenhower, however, he headed two groups (known as the Hoover Commissions) that planned an extensive reorganization of the executive branch of the government. Hoover’s books include American Individualism (1922), The Challenge to Liberty (1934), and Memoirs (3 vol., 1951–52). He died Oct. 20, 1964, in New York City. P.A.C., PAUL A. CARTER, M.A., Ph.D.

limerickman

You claimed earlier that Hoover was out of politics in 1932.
In an attempt to suggest that I was mistaken about Hoover.

I wasn't mistaken about Hoover - and my subsequent posts highlighting the
fact that Hoover was active in politics until the 1950's show that I was correct about Hoover.
I also stated earlier that Hoover made speeches about Hitler in the immediate
aftermath of the Nazi invasion of Czechozlovakia,

This is incidental to the entire discussion anyhow as to why the USA did not enter the war between 1939-1941.
The USA, as I stated earlier, was in the throes of the depression and the lehislation like the Neutrality Act was enacted to try to protect the USA
from becoming engaged in issues abroad.

It has been my view that the USA would never have entered the war, if Japan
had not decided to bomb Pearl Harbour.
That has been my view consistently.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

wolfix

Hoover was actually a somewhat unpopular President , with his inability to bring America out of it's economic slump.. One of my old riding routes went near Hoover's birthplace. Hoover's wife was born where I lived most of my life. My ex-wife was a member of a Lou Hoover society of some sort. And most of the things I read about Hoover was that he was not regarded as a "good" president.

The people did not want involvment in the European Theater. Here in the midwest we had a high percentage of people with a German background. Near me is a old POW camp where german military people were kept. During the day they were released to the farmers in the area to help. Many stayed after the war. There still is some real old people who believe we should not have gone against Germany. Japan was a whole different matter.. The Japanese are still looked at with some distrust. The American s got involved because of some backhanded politics of American politicians and possibly Churchhill...... And looking back on it, which is easy with hindsight, we should been involved.
American are not the only ones who get taught propaganda at an early age. A former customer of mine who is a professor of History said once that International students know as little about history as much as American students. Part of the propaganda that makes up nationalistic pride is twisting history to see it from an individuals perspective.


But this is something that bothers me ....... People are attacking America for being an isolated country as far as Europe goes in 1935---- And we were. But now with this Iraq thing we are being attacked for not staying home..... And Saddam was a potential threat and has attacked other countries.... Maybe the WMD's was not what we thought they were, but there were signs of posionous gas being used. And the terrorist threat was real as far as training camps and such.....

The Hollywood movie thing is something that gives America a bad name over seas. People see this American lifestyle on film and believe that is the way we are..... It is as abstract to the average American as it is to other nationalities. Of course the films show American heroics , it is targeted for American audiences and films are a form of entertainment.

__________________
"I rule my world with a cellphone."

Colorado Ryder

You attempted to make it seem as if Hoover still commanded attention. I proved that to be false. Truman in 1947 then Eisenhower in 1953 asked Hoover to head a commision to streamline government. What about Hoover's statement from 1940?


Your view has been that the US was only interested in profiteering from the war and that American actions were somehow less noble than other countries. You then have the gall to claim how noble the irish were. A country that refused to enter the war at all. And then to top it off signed the condolence book for Hitler's death.
And you still have not answered the question of why the US should have fought in a european war.

limerickman

Neither the Nazi's or their Allies (Japan or Italy) ever attacked my country.
So officially, we never had reason to engage in WWII
(we were only a country of 2m people at that time - we were economically destitute, what could we do?)

If you're asking me was that sufficient reason to stay out of WWII, I think not

I'd one relative that joined the British Army to fight in WWII.
150,000 Irishmen enlisted - most joined the British Army.
A very small amount joined the US army.
Those men and women did the correct thing, I think.
And although our official contribution to war effort may have been neutral,
I consider that 150,000 volunteers to be a worthy commitment to fight what was a just fight.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Colorado Ryder

Dublin was bombed on May 30, 1941. Isn't that provocation enough to go to war?


I'm not knocking irishmen's contributions to the war regardless of what the irish government did. But to say that all efforts were equal is wrong. The US was a major contributor to winning the war. The US had factories that were out of reach of the Germans and Japanese. These factories supplied a great amount of the war materials used by the Allies including the Soviets. Just because the Soviets lost more men than the US doesn't mean then contributed more. The US didn't have morons for military leaders that sacrificed men just because they had a lot of them. Soviets didn't try to enter the Pacific war until it was nearly over. The US made major contributions to both theaters of war. The US basically defeated the Japanese single handedly. Most Americans just want to be respected for the sacrifices that we made for others in WW2.

EoinC

Whoaa!!! I know (knew) plenty of New Zealand and Australian Vet's who would beg to differ there, CR. Thanks for your appreciation of their efforts. Thanks also on behalf of the people of the Philippines, PNG, Solomon Islands, Malaya (Malaysia), Indonesia, Vietnam, Burma (Myanmar) and the many other small Nations who, with very little means to do so, put up a very strong resistance against the Japanese forces - often completely without support from external forces. I used to live with a family in Timor whose father / husband had been decapitated when, as a Harbourmaster in Kalimantan, he had organised efforts to prevent Japanese ships entering the Harbour.
Before you speak of singlehanded, take a trip to the Sandakan Military Cemetary in Sabah, or a stroll over the Kukoda Trail in PNG. If you think you did it singlehanded, you are very seriously mistaken, and you do those who reisisted, or joined the fight (such as NZ and Australia) a great disservice.

Colorado Ryder

I knew I'd hear it from the Aussies and NZ. They definitely contributed to the defeat of Japan. However, the US was the major contributor in defeating Japan. The US fought island to island to get close enough to bomb Japan.

darkboong

Austria got "united" with Germany in '38. Europe started preparing for War with Germany in the mid 30s. Certainly British espionage was already well underway by the early 30s (that is a part of my family history).



The thousands of miles and hostile relations between the two certainly won't have helped. Europe didn't prevent the attack on Nanking, nor did the US, and neither side's descendents are claiming that they single handedly saved China from the Japanese.



I guess us Yooropeeeons should have shot Prescott Bush in the head and that would have starved the Nazi Party of funds until it disintegrated.



Talvisota started in '39 and the Finns and lasted for 4 months. It was an old dispute that had been on the boil since the Finns fought their way to independance during the First World War.



Not at all, we were talking about the European theatre. If you want to open it up to the Pacific theatre then sure, Europeans fought there too. You've heard of Burma and Singapore, right ? If you want to broaden it further troops of the British Empire fought all around the globe (including the Eastern Front).

Colorado Ryder

Really! Stalin allowed British troops to fight with the Soviets?