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TSS and training hours???

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Old 22-12.-2005, 05:30 AM   #76
frenchyge
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Originally Posted by fergie
Nice article but I am saying there is far more to cycling and winning bikes races than TSS is telling us. What top coaches working with Pro riders are using TSS to prescribe training and can we say with certainty that is better than working with data from individual sessions.

In 12 years of coaching I have tried every formula, software programme and have yet to find anything close to how complex cycling really is.

I don't think TSS in itself is going to put any of the top coaches out of work, as there's still as much art to coaching as there is science. For those of us that are self-coached, I think TSS allows us to graduate from finger-paints and elevate our 'art' to a higher level.
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Old 22-12.-2005, 05:30 AM   #77
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Originally Posted by fergie
What top coaches working with Pro riders are using TSS to prescribe training and can we say with certainty that is better than working with data from individual sessions.


I'm not at liberty to share that information, but I can tell you that 1) a few are, 2) some of their riders are getting their best ever results at the international level, and perhaps most importantly of all, 3) they (the coaches) really appreciate what the tool enables them to do.

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Originally Posted by fergie
The other thing is that TSS only takes into account the effect of training. What about recovery. Had a rider with a 2km PB of 2.55 who was overtraining (3.02 2 days ago) and on my insistence had two days off and dropped her PB to 2.49. While TSS may have shown that her score was higher than she had previously done, does it show the effects of two days off or explain (as you have to to riders) why they need to taper in the last 7 days before a big event.


Clearly you need to reread my previous post as well as the pezcyclingnews article by Frank Overton, because that's precisely the sort of situation in which the use of TSS can be very helpful (right, beerco? ).
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Old 22-12.-2005, 05:31 AM   #78
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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I am a triathlon coach. I need to take swimming and running work load into account as well, bring everything down to a commun unit of measure.


Have you considered using TRIMP?
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Old 22-12.-2005, 05:47 AM   #79
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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To be honnest with you RD, I monitor your works more than you could think.
The problem is that you are observing the proverbial "tip of the iceberg." As an avid cyclist, instrument pilot and with some technical background (mainly information technology), I became immediately fascinated by the opportunities of power data. It didn't take me long to figure out that training is all about increasing one's sustainable power (other than track sprint specialists) and racing is all about managing one's sustainable power. That's because that's all we have control of. Actually, compared with flying an instrument approach to minimums with a 30 knot crosswind and gusts to 50 knots, it's a piece of cake. So, I stepped back from currently available data and began asking myself the question, "What would I like to know and when do I want to know it?" That basic question has led me down an interesting path and has borne fruit, only a very small fraction of which is reflected in my posts here.
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Old 22-12.-2005, 05:56 AM   #80
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Originally Posted by fergie
What top coaches working with Pro riders are using TSS to prescribe training
This, Hamish, I don't give a d... Especially in cycling, Oh my! Most of these guys are probably way behind schedule in term of methodology of training. When I need some advice about the best dope to use for endurance enhancing, I will consider looking at what these guys do.

No offence of course.


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Originally Posted by fergie
Our National coach said the Powermeter is a wonderful tool but it takes a year of working with the rider to be able to really start cranking out the results with it and you can't ignore all else involved in the sport.
Power or no Power, it takes at least a year before ending up with decent mid term planning for an athlete I don't know. So I will just take the "wonderful tool" part of your statement, the rest is implicit to planning.


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Originally Posted by acoggan
Have you considered using TRIMP?
Funny you ask this question. Because during lunch time, I tried to booth my old computer to find my old (home made) forumla, and my o/s seems to be all messed up. My pc doesn't want to booth. And I don't really care, because I was planning on switching to TRIMP. Oh yes, most definitely.

Last edited by SolarEnergy : 22-12.-2005 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 22-12.-2005, 08:25 AM   #81
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Again, however, w/o direct measurements of your performance ability, you don't really know if you've been doing precisely the right type of training at precisely the right time with respect to your key races. This is what a powermeter enables you to do (and why they tend to be less useful to track cyclists, who can more readily rely on speed-vs-distance to judge the efficacy of their training).

You're right, i don't really know if i've been doing it exactly right. I should have mentioned that most of the L4-L5 and sprint intervals i have been doing are on either a velodrome or trainer so measuring the efficacy of my training has been somewhat easier. I'd assumed that this approach coupled with lab tests provided an equivalent method to using a PM up till now (that and the fact that getting one to/in Australia is quite expensive ) - but there's obviously a hell of a lot i don't know on using a PM and what it can do. This will change soon enough...
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Old 22-12.-2005, 08:29 AM   #82
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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You're right, i don't really know if i've been doing it exactly right. I should have mentioned that most of the L4-L5 and sprint intervals i have been doing are on either a velodrome or trainer so measuring the efficacy of my training has been somewhat easier. I'd assumed that this approach coupled with lab tests provided an equivalent method to using a PM up till now (that and the fact that getting one to/in Australia is quite expensive ) - but there's obviously a hell of a lot i don't know on using a PM and what it can do. This will change soon enough...


It sounds like your situation is a lot like mine was before I got an on-bike powermeter. Based on that, I predict that you'll still obtain significant benefits, although not necessarily as large as those who are completely new to training in such a structured manner.
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Old 22-12.-2005, 11:23 AM   #83
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Originally Posted by acoggan
It sounds like your situation is a lot like mine was before I got an on-bike powermeter. Based on that, I predict that you'll still obtain significant benefits, although not necessarily as large as those who are completely new to training in such a structured manner.

Thanks Andy - i'm looking forward to joining the PM club!
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Old 23-12.-2005, 06:29 AM   #84
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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Clearly you need to reread my previous post as well as the pezcyclingnews article by Frank Overton, because that's precisely the sort of situation in which the use of TSS can be very helpful (right, beerco? ).


Understatement of the day. Put it this way, looking at my data for 2004 was like finally seeing the puppet masters instead of the shadows. .
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Old 13-01.-2006, 07:35 AM   #85
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Default Re: TSS and training hours???

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I think that, one way or the other, the system needs a workout file. I think the charts are created "on-the-fly," which is why you can change FT and re-do all the charts. If it was using summary stats (e.g., TSS), then changing FT wouldn't change the charts for previous rides. I come back to my thought of a quick and dirty workout file generator, based on a few inputs such as minutes at each level. If I get a few spare minutes watching a football game over the holidays, I'll write something and post it here.
I've written a small console application to create a .csv file based on input of ride segments, for import into CP. If anybody wants to use it, you can download the zip file, containing the application file and a readme text file. Everything you need to know is in the readme. If you try it out, send me a message and let me know if it works and if it needs any mods. Thanks to PSUcycling for the FTP link. And, thanks to frenchyge and Spunout for testing earlier versions. Cheers. Here's the download link:
ftp://lanmonaerial.1:54fed1@lanmonaerial.com

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