Tookie Williams & the death penalty

darkboong

11 MINUTES is a hell of a long time to find a vein. I had 3 samples a day taken from my arms for two weeks. Eventually a doctor turned up looking a bit sheepish, fumbled around for a few minutes, collapsed a couple... I asked him if this was his first time, joking a bit, and he answered "Yes" in all seriousness. At that point I did it myself.

Jesus H Incompetance.

Sounds like Tookie had the same dude.

Chance3290

Prisons in Pakistan are a long way from our 'kinder and gentler' prisons/home away from home.

Here's life in the US. If you go to inner-city neighborhoods you will find young black men sitting on porches or standing on street corners. They are not working...at least not in a way most people work. Most people with jobs do not sleep all day and then sit on a porch or stand on a street all night. These people are players/hustlers/whatever you want to call them. They have to hustle to get their money. They have to find someone to fix their food and clean their clothes.
If or when these people are put in jail, do you know what they do? They sit or stand and have others take care of their needs. They no longer have to worry about food or clean clothes. Plus, they make contacts and learn...to hustle.

Anyone looking at tookie cannot possibly believe his life in prison was bad. He had access to books, tv, movies, weights, celebrites, drugs, sex, his gang associates, etc. That's not punishment, that's simply a change of address.

Anyone who doubts what I've written, please come and see. I'll put you up for a night, drive you around, and show you the legacy of tookie and his ilk.

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EoinC

Perhaps you need those Pakistani consultants to advise on how to make prison life in the USA slightly less appealing. Hell, I'd rather live in New Zealand than spend time in a Pakistani jail
Do you still have Hard Labour in any of the States? A friend of mine put together a programme in New Zealand for young incarcerates whereby, if they chose Hard Labour (Boot Camp), they could get a sentence reduction. They used to work on the Government Forestry programmes and, having worked with my mate up in Papua New Guinea, I would guess that the Hard Labour was....Hard. It worked well and turned out some well-disciplined individuals. Unfortunately, the Government wouldn't accept them for ongoing work after their release as they had criminal records. The whole thing fell apart when civil libertarians attacked the programme as being inhumane - kind of weird when it was voluntary. I thought it was good for the community (less incarceration time, benefits from the work done and released inmates came out as productive people) and good for the inmates (less incarceration time and come out as better individuals). I guess not...

Chance3290

Boot camps can be effective for young-up to 15 year olds. Unfortunately, once they get out of the camp, their right back where they started, right where the problem has been for decades. And if they get pinched after age 16 they go to big boy jail.

My thoughts-if you're in prison for up to five years, you go to school. First high school then trade school. This is the systems (and inmates) chance for rehabilitation If you're in for more than five years, or a repeat offender, make prison life miserable. For people who grow up in inner-city USA, prison is not a deterrent.

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Please, don't MOO at the cows. It only confuses them.

MountainPro

when my wife was pregnant she went for a scan and was asked to provide a blood sample. We had a student nurse who had difficulty finding the vein. After maybe 2 or 3 minutes she apologied and went to get the nurse. The nurse came in, took the arm and inserted the needs sucessfully first time in a matter of seconds. For an experienced medical professional it is every day stuff.

There was no excuse.

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HARD
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Chance3290

I'm just guessing here but, I think that at nurse school, when they're filling out the "Where would you like to work?" section on the application, I think PRISON NURSE is not at the top of many lists.

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Fixey

I have to assume that you added this info for emotional impact? why do you feel the need to bring emotions to a logical debate? either killing your citizins is ok or it is not!



Actually I am refering to the bases that where reportedly set up around the world in secret to hold prisoners out of the public eye, not Gaut, which I have never heard of btw.
I have no idea who or what the ACLU is but holding people who have never been found quilty of any crime for as long as you like cannot be legal in many countries im sure!

I have been accused of getting off topic and asked to refocus so here goes, I do not believe in capital punishment. I dont really care what this fellow did, I am sure it was truly disgusting, but as a humanist I believe people are born basicly good and givin the chance will choose right from wrong, all other things being equal. If someone ends up commiting violent and horrific acts against society there is generally a reason. Whilst this in no way detracts from thier guilt it does help understand why they may have commited such crimes. I work with these people every day of my life, some of them have done truly horrible things but when you read thier files and see what has happened in thier lifes I personally find myself wondering how I would have turned out any differantly. A religous man might say "There, but for the grace of god, go I".

I have no interest in getting into a sociologists debate but again I personally believe that society creates alot of the enviroments that produce people whom commit these crimes. For that same society to then sit in fatal judgement on thier own creations does not sit well with me.

Fixey

Inmates can still choose to work on the foresty programe. And since the government contracts out alot of its work now most can get jobs when they are released. I do not believe it reduces the sentence though. And yes, it is bloody hard work.

EoinC

Fixey, the programme must have been restarted then. My mate was a Warden back in the 80's, and was also a Forestry Consultant. From what he told me, the Government backed out of it not long after it got up and running. I'm pleased to hear that it's a goer again.
My friend told me that there was a marked change in attitudes in many of the inmates from when they started on the programme to when they left. He found it disappointing that the Government Forestry Service did not follow-up with employment for the inmates after they had served their time.

Happy New Year, All.
Eoin

Induray

Tookie,Tookie,Tookie,Tookie
Tookie,Tookie,Tookie,Ta
Apurate mi burrito que ya vamos a llegar...

(Everone sing!)

Con mi burrito sabanero voy camino de Belen
Si me ven, si me ven, voy camino de Belen.....

DiabloScott

Con mi cuatrito voy cantando, mi burrito va trotando
Con mi cuatrito voy cantando, mi burrito va trotando
Lucerito mañanero ilumina mi sendero
Lucerito mañanero ilumina mi sendero

Felices.

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Fixey

Cant be sure it is the same programe but I know rsidents at Paparoa can work in the forestry and alot get jobs when they leave. Most tell me it is hard yakka but beats the hell out of daytime soaps.

Prison life over here is not that tough, but shagged if I could do it. The food sucks for a start.

2 things I know (or at least I think I know ) , prison is not a deterent (Niether is the death penalty) and crime rates and media sensationalism go hand in hand.

stevebaby

Are you talking about dubya?

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bastard

stevebaby

The us has a legal system of statutory law and common law,based on the common law of england.English cases are regularly cited in american courts to establish precedent and "find the law".
The right of "Habeas Corpus" is an integral and vital part of both legal systems.The right to a fair trial has been denied to the prisoners in guantanamo bay.The ACLU is not alone.It would be difficult to find a lawyer in any common law jurisdiction who would agree that these imprisonments are lawful.They violate the basis of the us legal system.

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