Will Israel Strike First?

Carrera

The disputed land was re-claimed by Israel and the matter settled by going to war in the same way as the dispute over Argentina was resolved.
I haven't heard Fred ever make any comment with regard to that. The fact is his country is occupying the Falkland Islands on the basis of dubious legality yet he says nothing. Seems like he holds one set of rules for the Israelis that somehow don't apply to his country.
Neither does he ever make any comment over Kashmir.

Carrera

Because there is no need. Israel and the Arab States went to war in the sixties and Israel won the conflict fair and square. I never heard of any scenario where the victors of a conflict surrendered to those they defeated in battle.
Maybe your country should surrender some of the land it acquired illegally during the colonial period or you could start a campaign supporting such a cause to take your mind off your fixation with Israel.

limerickman

You're wrong.

The land where Israel was created in 1948, is disputed.
The subsequent additional land grab after 1967 is also disputed.

The conflicts between the Arab states and israel is a continuation of the unethical decision taken to displace Plaestinian people in 1948.
granted Israel won the conflicts in 1967 - but that doesn't mean that the issue has been settled in the long term.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

Don, I don't think myself or Dave Mc take the view the Palestinians have no rights at all or that Israel is a paragon of virtue. But I strongly suspect that Boogers, Fred and Lim have an agenda that is basically anti-semitic and that they base their views on biased media sources (Lim just slipped up and confessed he's just finished reading The Guardian again ).
Let me reiterate this point about anti-semitism:
Boogers, Lim and Fred clearly have one set of rules they apply to Israel and another set of rules they apply to other countries. I've basically never heard either one of these guys complain or kick up a fuss about occupations carried out by other countries. There is no mention of Kashmir, Taiwan being threatened by mainland China, the North/South Korea divide or any other dispute.
I have never heard these guys strongly censure suicide bombings by Islamic fanatics or severely criticize any Arab State, Iran included. Seems to me like their only concern is for a tiny country that has no other desire but to live in peace and threatens no western European country in any way.
Every time there is some major suicide bombing or act of terrorism within Europe, you'll hear these guys blaming Israel or claiming the said attack is nothing to do with Islamic extremists.
It seems to me like these guys have swallowed a whole load of anti-semitic jargon from the media and ignore any information that doesn't seem to coincide with their theories.

darkboong

Explain to me how speaking out against abuses committed against Semitic people be "Anti-Semitic" ? That alone illustrates how out of your depth you are in this topic, you *assume* that all the Semites are Jewish and that could *not* be further from the truth. Within the borders of Israel Jewish Semites are a minority last time I checked the Knessett's discussion of the pros and cons of Ethnic Cleansing.

For the record I *do* apply the same set of rules to everyone, the problem you have here is that the topic *is* about Israel and you just can't stand anyone disagreeing with the opinion of your pinup girl. You even quoted Le Penn's wife to support your arguments. If you can't see the problem with quoting the wife of a holocaust denier and *national socialist* then you are too far gone to merit the Oxygen you are squandering by your existence.

As for reading Biased news sources, sure, I read lots of them, the difference is that I make an attempt to identify the bias and read sources with different and opposing biases. Melanie Philips isn't just biased, she blatantly fabricates stuff.

Carrera

The Catholic Church bases most of its doctrine on the Old Testament. That is, Jesus was apparently some kind of sacrifical lamb that would redeem believers in the same way as Moses's sacrifices in the tabernacle would redeem the children of Israel. It's all about sacrifice and redemption.
Key Christian thinkers such as Paul of Tasus were Jewish (In Paul's case he was a Roman citizen. probably martyred under Nero's persecutions in the middle of the 1st century A.D.)
Catholicism has been based on Judaism, the cult of Isis, the Mithraic cult and various Greek Mystery religions. Above all, the whole idea of Mary seems to be linked to the Magna Mater, which is a pagan concept.
I suspect, though, that the Jews got it right. I see no evidence to suggest Jesus ever claimed he was the son of God in the sense it has been taught by the Church. It is open to debate whether Jesus's disciples actually taught Jesus was the son of God.
The Trinity seems even more suspicious. It also has pagan precedents.

Colorado Ryder

You really don't know what you're talking about. There are many references where Jesus conformed he was the Son of God. Here are just a few.

Matthew 26:63-64 (New International Version)

63But Jesus remained silent.
The high priest said to him, "I charge you under oath by the living God: Tell us if you are the Christ,[a] the Son of God."
64"Yes, it is as you say," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: In the future you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

John 8:54-55 (New International Version)

54Jesus replied, "If I glorify myself, my glory means nothing. My Father, whom you claim as your God, is the one who glorifies me. 55Though you do not know him, I know him. If I said I did not, I would be a liar like you, but I do know him and keep his word.

Matthew 16:16-17 (New International Version)

16Simon Peter answered, "You are the Christ,[a] the Son of the living God."
17Jesus replied, "Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by man, but by my Father in heaven

davidmc

Do you subscribe to pascifism as an effective national policy Some would term that a form of isolationism Are you suggesting that you would have your country simply remain on the side-lines, as it were

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

ptlwp

Let us please remember that Judiasm was one of the first transcendent religions, and Christianity and Islam came after Judiasm. This is a fact that cannot be disputed.

The land was occupied first by the Hebrews and will be occupied lastly by the Hebrews. I would hope that Hebrews hold onto Jerusalem for the benefit of the doubt, if nothing else.

Also, what I meant by dogma, is that there are 613 mitzvahs(good deads that Jews are required to obey, so much as they can), but if I don't do all or any of them.....I am not excommunicated for it. My thoughts are always mine first and differing opinions are always welcome.

There was never a Jewish equivalent of the "Council of Nicea" which carefully outlined exactly what was and wasn't to be done; although the Papacy was rife with money giving for release from sin, hence the reformation.

But it all started with Mosaic law and will end, I believe, with Mosaic Law. This came way before the Magna Carta and the Declaration of Independence.

And one further thing, many of the major powers that had edicts that Jews were no longer welcome and had to leave, die, convert, etc., have become powers as such, no more.

Let's see what happens in the future. These are exciting times. As the Chinese curse says, "may you live in exciting times"...

Love, Petals

__________________
"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

davidmc

Exactly. A double-standard. Whats its referred to as oh yes-cognitive dissonance &/or selective compassion. I agree the Palestinians, as do all people, have a right to self-determination BUT they are in a quandary because the League of Nations saw fit to not afford them a country. Notice the USA, unilaterally, is nowhere to be found in this argument. It is the result of an amalgam of nations drawing lines upon a map.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

davidmc

From my understanding, Jesus merely repeated back what the inquisitors mouthed such as:
Q: are you tho son of god or the king of the jews?
A: You say that I am.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Colorado Ryder

You don't understand much.

FredC

Hitch up y'hosses boys. Here comes the covered wagons with bible thumpers, Devil dodgers, snake oil salesmen, patent med'cins and cheap whisky frus. Devils men.

__________________
The media is a self perpetuating publicity stunt.

davidmc

Do you know what parables are I suspect not. Oh well

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )