Will Israel Strike First?

FredC

Au contraire mon ami BD,
Lim and I smashed him to pieces a long time ago, and with further erudite contributions from you goodself consolidated the previous situation, whereby he admitted he didn't understand SOI Zionist politics, and the situation on the West Bank and Gaza. I am of the opinion to starve him of fuel for his no doubt continued ignorance, so let him talk to himself. He doesn't have much of an audience anyway, so let's flame him.

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The media is a self perpetuating publicity stunt.

ptlwp

Have no fear, the only difference in marrying a Jew or non-Jew is that I would be taken to a concentration camp and I would go by myself, without my spouse.

The Jewish religion doesn't account much for dogma if that's the way it's best for you, free thinking is one of the more enlightened features of this religion.


As for Kosher, I have been keeping Kosher with regard to Kosher meats. I, personally do believe that there should be a homeland for Jewish people, so call me a Zionist, Please......

Strictly speaking, the Vatican resides on land that was overtaken by the Catholic Church, for the use and espousation and as a center of Roman Catholicism. I don't see any difference between that land the land the Israel's have occupied for some 4,000 years.

What would happen if terrorists of whatever stripe demanded, because it was a nice place, the grounds on which the Vatican stands? After all, it was along with St. Peter, I would assume, stolen right out from under the Roman Empire, and since Constantine sees crosses, St. Joan sees swords and all sorts of supernatual events going on all around the Christian (Catholic World), maybe medication would be in order, except that there was none.

Speaking of miracles, I also would like to have seen a miracle where Pope Pius, wasn't so worried about offending the Bishop of Germany, that a TRUE miracle might have occurred. I would think that all these miraculous folk tale believers take medication, had there been any, and today keep taking it for their problems with visions.

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"All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing." Sir Edmund Burke

darkboong

Ethnically cleansing Palestine on the basis of a book of dubious origin is bloody dogmatic. Wearing those crazy furry hats at the height of summer is pretty dogmatic too. That practice appears to promote heat stroke instead of free thinking.

As ever, it's the people not the religion.

limerickman

I agree : the deeds to the territory reside with the Palestinians who were there until 1948.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

limerickman

The Jewish religion is full of dogma and ritual : what about the cleansing rites ?
What about dietary rites ? And that's just for starters (excuse the pun).
The Jewish religion is extremely dogmatic in terms of Orthodox.



In theory there is no problem with wanting a homeland - it's the acquisition of the current homeland which is in dispute here.




To attempt to equate the Vatican with Israel is a novel move.

The Vatican was bequeathed by the Roman (Italian) authorities in approximately AD 300 by Constantine.
The Roman Empire converted to the Catholic (Christian faith).
There was no "takeover" as you call it : Rome had been pagan until AD 300.

The city of the Vatican is a protectorate of the Italian State.

You don't see any difference between Isreal 4,000 years ago and the Vatican ?
It might help your case if you - or anyone else - could show us even a map displaying Isreal's ancient site.
Israel never existed prior to 1948.
What you refer to Israel is a collection of provinces called Judea etc.
There was never an entity called Israel.



You can scorn the Christian (Catholic) faith if you wish.
The fact of the matter is that Rome - in all it's imperfections and it's terrible history - has history on it's side.



The Roman Catholic Church helped the Jewish people in WW2.
There are literally millions of examples which could be cited that show the RCC
tried to help and assist Jews who were presecuted.

Gino Bartali the great Italian cyclist, for example, is cited for the rescue of Jews during WW2. That's just one example.

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.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

Carrera

"You can scorn the Christian (Catholic) faith if you wish.
The fact of the matter is that Rome - in all it's imperfections and it's terrible history - has history on it's side."

You seem to know less about world religion than I imagined, Lim.Catholicism, same as Islam, is an offshoot of Judaism. It isn't a pure religion but a huge mish mash of pagan customs and with roots in Judaism.
Judaism is perhaps the world's oldest religion. It's gnostic variant such as Kabbalah is equally ancient.
For a start, Catholics have copied the communion rite from the old Greek Mystery Religions which I happen to know something about. Many pagan religions used bread and wine as a substitute for flesh and blood.
The Catholic doctrine of Mary is probably a play on the Magna Mater - the pagan Great Mother. Even Christmas day December 25th was adopted from the pagan date and the traditional festival of the Saturnalia.
Basically, we all must know that Catholicism differs from Judaism in as much as traditional Jews didn't believe the Christos was their awaited messiah but saw him as a prophet. Christians believe he was the son of God and refer to the Christos as Chrestus by the old Roman term.
It can't be emphasised enough that both Christianity and Islam base themselves upon what is essentially a Jewish religion. The Judaic religion itself may well have influences going as far back as ancient Egypt.
Your position of attempting to somehow uphold catholicism and Islam while dismissing Judaism (the root of both relgions) is kind of illogical. Seems to me a bit like saying you believe in socialism but hate Karl Marx.

Carrera

Let me know if you wish me to forward some articles on pagan influences, Greek religion and the origin of catholicism.

"The Metamorphoses of Apuleius, also a comic novel, presents an initiation scene into the cult of Isis, and most scholars agree that it gives tremendous insight into actual cult practices when taken seriously (snip)Certainly if any of the cult can be taken seriously it could help in our understanding of ancient religions in general."

Carrera

What I said was Israel wasn't my speciality. That doesn't mean I don't know enough to refute many of the garbled ideas you've been broadcasting on the forum. Many of these arguments seemed to be based on wishful thinking as opposed to fact.

limerickman

Catholicism departed from Judasim 2,000 years ago :




The RCC faith share the Old Testament with Judaism because the OT prophesised the arrival of the Messiah.
Apart from that - both faiths are divisible and separate.




I think you'll find that both Islam and Christianity are significantly different from each other and Judaism.

For a start, Christians believe that the Messiah arrived 2,000 years ago.
Muslims believe that the last prophet sent by God is Muhammed.
the Jewish faith believe that the Messiah has not yet arrived.

The fact that Christian anniversaries co-incide with the dates of pagan festivities is immaterial.

You either accept the tenets of a faith or not : and it is pointless discussing the tenets of respective faiths because all faith is subjective.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

jaguar75

Your knowledge of Military aircraft and tactics is slightly scewed. Israel WILL attack Iran if they go nuclear for one very simple reason...They have already done it once before. In 1981, just before it went operational, Israel sent 6 F-16's and 6 F-15's to Iraq to take out the "nuclear power plant". This mission was 100 % succesful. The F-16's were there to bomb the plant with the F-15's flying Mig cap. Not one single Israeli aircraft was lost and the F-15's scored several kills on Jordanian Mig's on the return flight home. This mission was text book. Arguably the best fighter pilots in the world are Israelis...

Read this

Israel is a nation that has demonstrated to the world it's politics, in that, the Israel nation does not screw around. They mean what they say and they do what they mean.

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"Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little" - Plutarch (46 AD - 120 AD)

darkboong

The Israeli Air Force has never struck against prepared targets. They would have an entirely different record if they were up against -25s (Iraq bought them *after* Osirak) and Su-27s with engage on intercept orders (see the USAF F-18/F-15/F-16 vs just *TWO* MiG-25s in the Gulf War). As for the Jordanians, poor sods, MiG-29's scrambling to intercept *DO NOT ENGAGE" targets and getting shot down... Wow, big wup. Almost as brave as the US airforce dropping those two *unarmed* Libyan interceptors in Libyan territorial waters.

limerickman

........and if I recall correctly, in 1981 Iran was in the middle of one of the most deadly wars on the 20th century with America's, err, best, err, friend in the Middle East, one Saddam Hussein, when the Israeli's attacked Iran.

How ironic.

__________________
.."But finally the last thing I’ll say to the people who don’t believe in cycling, the cynics and the sceptics. I'm sorry for you. I’m sorry that you can’t dream big. [I]I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles. You should believe in these athletes, and you should believe in these people. I'll be a fan of the Tour de France for as long as I live. And there are no secrets" - this is a hard sporting event and hard work wins it - Armstrong 2005 TDF
morelike hypocrisy.

darkboong

Indeed. Moral of the story : Don't trust the Whitehouse as far as you could kick it. That's a lesson that the rest of the world needs to take on board fast, there's no one around to keep the Whitehouse honest anymore. Time to move on.

darkboong

Indeed. Moral of the story : Don't trust the Whitehouse as far as you could kick it. That's a lesson that the rest of the world needs to take on board fast, there's no one around to keep the Whitehouse honest anymore. Time to move on.