TACX Trainers

2LAP

Originally posted by J-MAT
KEEBLER:

If you study the bodies of time-trial specialists, you will often find they have larger butts and thighs than "normal" road riders. This is extra muscle they have packed on from pushing big gears while seated.

> Think there is a paper in this, I know some girls that could provide very reliable measures! Although I have never studied the bodies of TT specialists with any passion, I never noticed any difference in the worlds best TTers (boardman, indurain, armstrong, miller, etc) or pursuiters (McGee, Wiggins, etc.). Its also funny how the best TTers and pursuiters in the world also happen to be the best 'normal' road riders in the world! Is it because they happen to be gifted metabolicaly and not in the strength department? I don't recal any of these riders pushing big gears at lowish cadences!

More muscle means more strength, which leads to increased power output. Power= work/time, or in the cyling world, pedal force/time. Stronger mucles produce more pedal force, and last longer before fatiguing.

> What about track sprinters, arguably the strongest riders in the world yet fatigue the quickest! I've never seen a track sprinter in the tour perhaps they would fatigue (particularly on the climbs) and not last the distance! Also the power at the end of a 1km TT for a track sprinter is often less than 1/3 of the peak power produced at the start of the 1Km TT; thats a huge rate of fatigue!!!

Put your bike in a 53x11 on the road and ride at 10 mph. That doesn't require much power at all, yet it will feel much harder that riding in a 39x21 at the same speed. The main difference between the two gears is pedal force. Stronger muscles generate higher pedal forces easier than weaker ones.

> You need to be more specific! What do you mean by easier; less metabolic cost, smaller percentage of muscle recruited, etc?Actualy, stronger muscles can generate higher maximal forces than weaker muscles. During endurance cycling, riders never exert the maximal force on the pedals so increaseing the strength (maximal force) will not change ability to cycle in endurance events!!!

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2LAP

Refer to Ric's post, he is spot on. I think that Ric refers to the British Cycling 6 Zones of training in his port.

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ric_stern/RST

I'm actually referring to the set of zones that i developed, see: http://www.cyclingnews.com/fitness/?id=powerstern

However, i assume that the zones from the BC(F) have been developed using the same physiological principles as mine, and as such should be similar enough to interchange them for some sessions (i.e., endurance based ones).

I assume that physiological principles are the same or very similar as, when i was an undergrad, i was under the tutelage of the physiologist who developed the BCF zones (i.e., Peter Keen, and Louis Passfield).

Ric

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steve

Changing gears doesnt give you stronger muscles though!

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2LAP

I'll have a look at yours and BC's and do a comparison. As you suggest they are likely to be the same (except for HR v's Power). As long as the principles behind any zone system are both sound and understood by the user, I don't think there is a problem using any system. I like the fact that power Zones can take account of intensities outside the normal HR range (i.e. anaerobic).

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KEEBLER

I dont want to sound like an idiot here, but im gonna ask the question any way :-0>

I have a watt meter om my tacx basic. Can i figure out my zones with this, by just increasing the watts at a regulr rate, or am i totally lost.

Keebler

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2LAP

I'm not sure how reliable the meter is on your tacx.

It doesn't really matter what values you get on the test Ric describes but what matters are that 100 watts = 100 watts every time you get on the bike. So yes you can complete the test on your tacx.

Its not a good idea to compare values obtained from your tacx to PT or SRM measurments as the latter are likely to be more accurate.

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ric_stern/RST

As one of my lecturers once said, you can never ask a daft question.

Yes, it's quite possible to use the power zones i developed as described at the cyclingnews.com site above, with your tacx.

There's two things to bear in mind though
1) as 2Lap points out, the tacx isn't a valid measure of power so you're unable to compare it to e.g., a PT or SRM. I've tried several tacxs and at a given power they've all come out with different estimates -- so, don't compare one to another unit either

2) as the braking unit on the tacx (and virtually all other turbo trainers) heats up (as your session progresses), the resistance in the flywheel alters. Thus, while the tacx (and other units) might display a constant power output (e.g., 250 W), the actual power will be dropping slightly. Or, to put it another way, while riding at a constant effort (under the guidance of e.g., PT) power and speed will increase on the tacx. It's been a long time (maybe 4 years now) since i last used a tacx, but from memory, on the unit i had i'm pretty sure it was 'loosing' 5% per hour.

Ric

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KEEBLER

What zone should i try to be in for VO2 max work. can i use interval training for this??

2LAP

Using Ric's Zones your VO2 max will fall in Zone 6 (i.e. 100% of Max HR and 100% of MAP).

You can do interval training as I think Ric described earlier. You could try:
Warm up
3 x 4mins on and 8 mins off
Warm down

As you get fitter increase the reps or include an additional set rather than increasing the intensity or duration of the effort. The rest period is 8 minutes as this is designed to allow you to recover fully. Some riders need longer and some shorter. Just make sure that the quality of the efforts are maintained.

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ric_stern/RST

Using my zone system, zones 3 to 6 (and 7 if you can stick it for long enough!) will increase VO2max and power at VO2max.

By the time you get into zones 5 and 6, you can do intervals of 3 to ~8-mins to increase VO2 max, starting with two or three reps (better aiming for a slightly low power and completing the session, as opposed to starting too hard, fatiguing rapidly and packing it in after 60-secs!).

At zones 3 and 4, the duration will need to be longer, such that at zone 3 it might be a continuous effort of 30 - 90 mins, depending on your fitness level.

It's also possible to combine these zones/intervals into a bigger session, e.g., WU, Zone 4, zone 5 and 6, CD

Ric

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KEEBLER

Hi Ric and 2lap,

Thanxs for all the great help and info. Sorry if i seem like a little pain in the but, but i really want to put together a program that works.

I have learned alot from this thread.

Thanxs
Keebler

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2LAP

Keep well hydrated and well fueled when doing these sessions.

The Riding in the lower zones 3, 4 and 5 will have a big effect on your lactate threshold (particularly zone 4).

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ric_stern/RST

Yep, thoroughly agree with this. If you do these indoors on a turbo trainer, make sure you have a big fan blowing at high speed, and wear the minimum amount of clothing necessary!

also, a cold energy drink with electrolytes is critical. as is a freezing cold ice lolly afterwards. i can vouch for this

Keebler, glad to help. did you get my email by the way?

Ric

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