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The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Old 29-10.-2005, 09:41 AM   #16
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Originally Posted by Billsworld
I am vry content to be a spectator on this thread. . At least you both seem good natured about this. Very Funny!!
I have to give Hypnospin credit for his post. I will only adnmit this once, but I was laughing as I read his response.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 10:00 AM   #17
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

Although I dispise both parties. I am obviously more closely linked by a thread to the repubs. I believe in the constitution and the true intent its authors had when writing it. Those words have been perverted and twisted beyond recocnition . It doesnt require a Harvard MBA to understand simple principals like having a job ,paying ones bills, not having children we cant support . These days, those are extreme right wing positions. Damn that was a boaring speach.PS. Your response was funny
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after a time, some of the more thoughtful men among those at the firepit began to tire of the early cons music, which consisted then, as now, of repetitive twanging and yodeling.
they fashioned instruments of refinement and pleasing tone, and their playing attracted the most attractive and thoughtful females of the groups.
shunning the crude yeasty warm and flat beverage of choice among the cons, they cultivated grapes and eventualy developed and reifined the vinters art to the level of port, cream sherry, and cognac, thus intensifying the attraction of the most desirable of the females, who were also attracted by the fact thay were less likely to have their kids slapped or be dragged around and beaten themselves.
these thoughtful men developed the conventions of bathing, shaving and using an awareness of hygiene that led to the widespread acceptance of soap. they favored long hair and used pleasant smelling flower extracts to further their appeal to the opposite sex.
in order to pursue the finer things in life, they extended oppurtunities to the cons and provided meaningful employment for those who had known only the savage brutality of hunting, and trained the cons in the ways of sheepherding, agriculture, tavernkeeping, meatcutting and woodchopping.
they developed and utilized the two wheeled cycle and evolved a competition of racing, but the cons did not particpate in numbers due to the prerequisite of wearing revealing lycra tights, which aroused the cons homophbia. they preferred, instead, a bastardized soccer game of territorial injury infliction they called "merkun football".
eventualy the thoughtful men would transport themselves in swedish steel conveyances known as volvo, and perhaps appropriately in the phonetic sense, saab.
meanwhile, the cons developed a personal style that relied heavily upon the crude wagons known as "pick 'em ups" and favored flannel and bib overalls as the primary fashion statement. they adorned their vehicles with dual rear wheels and mudflaps, upon these were emblazed the outline of states such as wyoming, or the female caricature in repose. they voted for the neocon party, as did their offspring, as they knew no other way.
it is often speculated on the relative advancements these rustic cons might make if they were to avail themselves of the higher learning and teaching by example of the thoughtful men, but to this day such considerations continue to remain largely academic in nature.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 10:02 AM   #18
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

Me too . It was funny...
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I have to give Hypnospin credit for his post. I will only adnmit this once, but I was laughing as I read his response.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 10:18 AM   #19
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Me too . It was funny...

I am somewhat a confusing repub.... I wear my hair long in a ponytail, I have built several successful business, and my girlfriend is the most liberal hippie chick in town. She actually lived in the Haight in the late 60's as a flower child..... I ran a pub for the last 4 years that catered to a very diverse group at the university. Gays, liberals, rednecks, drug dealers, judges and most everybody BUT FRAT BOYS hung out there.
But I lean towards the repugs.... {Hey Wurm ...LOOK>>>> I used your word} I am not happy with the Bush gang at this moment. But I also see economics as the base for a society. And the REpubs are suppose to have the attitude that I like. I believe most social programs get boggled down with government efficiency that is really not all that good.
I believe most social ills can be solved with good jobs. I am a union backer but I would never work in a place large enough to be able to justify a union. Just a personal choice.
Personal responsibility goes a long way with me.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 10:33 AM   #20
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

You sound almost as disgruntled as I am. Im into solar power and bio diesel. My long hair was cut a long time ago however. Are you on the west coast?
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Originally Posted by wolfix
I am somewhat a confusing repub.... I wear my hair long in a ponytail, I have built several successful business, and my girlfriend is the most liberal hippie chick in town. She actually lived in the Haight in the late 60's as a flower child..... I ran a pub for the last 4 years that catered to a very diverse group at the university. Gays, liberals, rednecks, drug dealers, judges and most everybody BUT FRAT BOYS hung out there.
But I lean towards the repugs.... {Hey Wurm ...LOOK>>>> I used your word} I am not happy with the Bush gang at this moment. But I also see economics as the base for a society. And the REpubs are suppose to have the attitude that I like. I believe most social programs get boggled down with government efficiency that is really not all that good.
I believe most social ills can be solved with good jobs. I am a union backer but I would never work in a place large enough to be able to justify a union. Just a personal choice.
Personal responsibility goes a long way with me.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 02:53 PM   #21
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Thumbs down Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wolfix
I am somewhat a confusing repub.... I wear my hair long in a ponytail, I have built several successful business, and my girlfriend is the most liberal hippie chick in town. She actually lived in the Haight in the late 60's as a flower child..... I ran a pub for the last 4 years that catered to a very diverse group at the university. Gays, liberals, rednecks, drug dealers, judges and most everybody BUT FRAT BOYS hung out there.
But I lean towards the repugs.... {Hey Wurm ...LOOK>>>> I used your word} I am not happy with the Bush gang at this moment. But I also see economics as the base for a society. And the REpubs are suppose to have the attitude that I like. I believe most social programs get boggled down with government efficiency that is really not all that good.
I believe most social ills can be solved with good jobs. I am a union backer but I would never work in a place large enough to be able to justify a union. Just a personal choice.
Personal responsibility goes a long way with me.

"Repug's" is of my invention Wurm's is "Rethug's". I have no problem w/ moderate repub's such as Hatch, Specter, Lugar, McCain, ect...its the extreme con's such as DeLay (majority whip[under indictment]), Frist, Cheney (vp), Hastert (majority leader), Young (bridge to nowhere), Brownback, et al who get my blood boiling. They're the kind of guys who'll pee on your leg & try to convince you its raining If your lot didn't harp on abortion, gays, & punishing the poor, you might not be so bad. Stop trying to police people's bedrooms & you might come across a little less intolerant Just an opinion
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Old 29-10.-2005, 04:08 PM   #22
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

yeah these guys are not so bad, just short of villianous to the core.
as for bedroom police, there is a ready market here for this proposition, if one were to take out an ad in the berkeley barb, i venture you would get takers...



Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmc
"Repug's" is of my invention Wurm's is "Rethug's". to If your lot didn't harp on abortion, gays, & punishing the poor, you might not be so bad. Stop trying to police people's bedrooms & you might come across a little less intolerant Just an opinion
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Old 29-10.-2005, 04:11 PM   #23
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

as for this credit so reluctantly bestowed upon me for this "breaking of the ice"
posting attempt, can you just revert to slander so as i will not be conflicted in how to deal with my world view?


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I have to give Hypnospin credit for his post. I will only adnmit this once, but I was laughing as I read his response.
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Old 29-10.-2005, 11:29 PM   #24
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnospin
as for this credit so reluctantly bestowed upon me for this "breaking of the ice"
posting attempt, can you just revert to slander so as i will not be conflicted in how to deal with my world view?

Credit To Davidmc for Repugs.....There are many of us repugs who are not happy with the right wing of our party. We do not want our bedrooms policed either. And most repugs I know do not have any problem with gays either. Matter of fact, I have claimed this for a long time..... The average demo who is a working demo has a bigger tendency towards racism and intolerance then the average repug....
And if there is any doubt of this,go to the typical union factory workers bar and check it out. And I may be wrong, but the Unions form a much larger voting block for the Dems then gays. I am willing to bet that the average redneck in this country is democrat.
As far as the statement of repugs policing the bedrooms.... Repugs have a problem with the liberals wanting to police the money earned by repugs. It just seems to me that most liberal thought is exactly that.... Thought.
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Old 30-10.-2005, 04:14 AM   #25
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

We all would be alot better off if the only debates in this country were about gay rights and abortion. If W and Congress(both sides of the isle) had thier funds limited, we might not be in Iraq, or any where else. Sometimes a country or a person has to live by core values and principals. I think that both of those things are a moving target with the group of leaders we have in Washington. I know you have had issues with my limited govt. concepts in the past, but its really tho only answer. The dems are no better!! Thanks BP
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Originally Posted by davidmc
"Repug's" is of my invention Wurm's is "Rethug's". I have no problem w/ moderate repub's such as Hatch, Specter, Lugar, McCain, ect...its the extreme con's such as DeLay (majority whip[under indictment]), Frist, Cheney (vp), Hastert (majority leader), Young (bridge to nowhere), Brownback, et al who get my blood boiling. They're the kind of guys who'll pee on your leg & try to convince you its raining If your lot didn't harp on abortion, gays, & punishing the poor, you might not be so bad. Stop trying to police people's bedrooms & you might come across a little less intolerant Just an opinion
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Old 30-10.-2005, 04:55 AM   #26
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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I am willing to bet that the average redneck in this country is democrat.

Over here, in The U.S.; I would wage that the avg. redneck is a republican-90% of the time. Now, "hillbillies", thats a different story. "Hillbillies" are just country folk, not "brown-shirts" like the rednecks The Dem's, i'm sure have some corrupt politicians also. I voted 3rd party in 3/4 of the last presidential elections
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As far as the statement of repugs policing the bedrooms.... Repugs have a problem with the liberals wanting to police the money earned by repugs. It just seems to me that most liberal thought is exactly that.... Thought.

You make a valid point here but; I believe, right or wrong, that the people who BENEFIT MOST in our society ought to not have a problem w/ contributing a more in taxes as they enjoy a considerably better lifestyle than the lower rung of citizens. There are the "well-off",the "rich", the "uber-rich", and the "obscenely-rich" A graduated/progressive tax scale is equitable. A flat tax is repressive, plain & simple.
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Old 30-10.-2005, 05:14 AM   #27
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Originally Posted by davidmc
"Repug's" is of my invention Wurm's is "Rethug's". I have no problem w/ moderate repub's such as Hatch, Specter, Lugar, McCain, ect...its the extreme con's such as DeLay (majority whip[under indictment]), Frist, Cheney (vp), Hastert (majority leader), Young (bridge to nowhere), Brownback, et al who get my blood boiling. They're the kind of guys who'll pee on your leg & try to convince you its raining If your lot didn't harp on abortion, gays, & punishing the poor, you might not be so bad. Stop trying to police people's bedrooms & you might come across a little less intolerant Just an opinion

The part about punishing the poor. The perspective of many repugs is this.... Many of them do not believe the poor are "poor because they are lazy," or do they believe poor are "poor because they caused it themselves." Many repugs have the attitude that with job availibilty the poor can rise above poverty. And in order to have "job creation" we must give incentive to the ones with the purse strings a reason to invest and that is what creates jobs. A liberal hates to hear this. All they can see is that the rich are getting ahead. I am not confused here. I realize there is a difference between "corporate rape" and "honest job creation." The problem we repugs have with most social programs is that they have a tendency to be boggled down and expensive.. and then they have limited success.
Some of the liberal programs do more to hurt the poor then help....The moderate repugs and moderate dems are closer in political philosophy then what each party wants them to believe. I have made this statement before and I stick by it... The reason the Dems cannot win an election is that they do not know who their voting public is. I would have voted for a dem in the last election if they would have had a moderate run. If you examine the presidential policies set forth in the last 30 years , and history judges a President by his policies he sets forth, then both Richard Nixon and Bill Clinton are the 2 men who did more for the average working guy then any of the rest. But a person has to get by Watergate and Clinton's impeachment. To me, they both were guilty of bad decisions and a overly aggressive smear campaign by the opposing party. I would vote for either one of them again .... And I stand behind my opinions on this.
Of course I am a capitolist with a love of small businesses in America. If we help the small business person achieve success through less taxation and more relaxed policys then the working man will benefit. But if we saddle the beginning small businesss person with unrealistic policys then he is trapped in a world of working for someone else. Then the corporations and boardrooms take over..... The corporations then vote in their political choice thru PACS and the like. We all lose.
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Old 30-10.-2005, 05:18 AM   #28
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Of course I am a capitalist with a love of small businesses in America. If we help the small business person achieve success through less taxation and more relaxed policys then the working man will benefit. But if we saddle the beginning small business person with unrealistic policys then he is trapped in a world of working for someone else. Then the corporations and boardrooms take over..... The corporations then vote in their political choice thru PACS and the like. We all lose.

I agree w/ you. Someone can be a small businessman & take in <$5 million. However, when we get into the 100's of millions, say for the "salary" of a CEO, I think it is a bit ridiculous.
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Old 30-10.-2005, 05:48 AM   #29
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Over here, in The U.S.; I would wage that the avg. redneck is a republican-90% of the time. Now, "hillbillies", thats a different story. "Hillbillies" are just country folk, not "brown-shirts" like the rednecks The Dem's, i'm sure have some corrupt politicians also. I voted 3rd party in 3/4 of the last presidential elections

You make a valid point here but; I believe, right or wrong, that the people who BENEFIT MOST in our society ought to not have a problem w/ contributing a more in taxes as they enjoy a considerably better lifestyle than the lower rung of citizens. There are the "well-off",the "rich", the "uber-rich", and the "obscenely-rich" A graduated/progressive tax scale is equitable. A flat tax is repressive, plain & simple.


I can see that part in your part of the country. In my part we have different demographics......
I am not happy with our present tax system. There was mention of a tax system based on purchases..... With the exclusion of the everyday things for living, such as food, medical and lets say housing materials ........ We then tax more heavily on items that may be considered Luxury... with a few adjustments to the luxury tax system that was talked about.
One thing I hate about the politicians approach to things......
The medical system in this country.....
I believe everyone has a right to medical care. But to attack the "state plan. " I have a problem with this. Where will the money come from? Business is the most popular answer. With that , the average working man will never be able to leave his job, the start-up costs will be too high. I believe the "state run" medical status will ruin this country.
But am I happy with the way it is?????? Hardly. The truth is that the poor have very good medical programs in this country. The rich do too .. The average working guy is paying way too much and this causes him to become a slave to a corporation.

Do I have a solution???? I do , but it is not a populor one nor very realistic. We simply eliminate 95% of the lawyers in
this country. I know this is a standard joke but there is far too much truth to this to be funny.
If a person looks at to "why"the medical costs are outragous it is not because of high paid doctors. The reasons are many, and most of them are driven by lawyer greed. Lawyers, who our political base consists of , have created industries through lawmaking that enhance their standings. Artificial industries.
I read a great book ..... " The Case Against Lawyers" by Catherine Crier. it should be a must read for politically minded people.
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Old 30-10.-2005, 08:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: The beginning of America's liberalism.

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Originally Posted by wolfix
I can see that part in your part of the country. In my part we have different demographics......
I am not happy with our present tax system. There was mention of a tax system based on purchases..... With the exclusion of the everyday things for living, such as food, medical and lets say housing materials ........ We then tax more heavily on items that may be considered Luxury... with a few adjustments to the luxury tax system that was talked about.
One thing I hate about the politicians approach to things......
The medical system in this country.....
I believe everyone has a right to medical care. But to attack the "state plan. " I have a problem with this. Where will the money come from? Business is the most popular answer. With that , the average working man will never be able to leave his job, the start-up costs will be too high. I believe the "state run" medical status will ruin this country.
But am I happy with the way it is?????? Hardly. The truth is that the poor have very good medical programs in this country. The rich do too .. The average working guy is paying way too much and this causes him to become a slave to a corporation.

Do I have a solution???? I do , but it is not a populor one nor very realistic. We simply eliminate 95% of the lawyers in
this country. I know this is a standard joke but there is far too much truth to this to be funny.
If a person looks at to "why"the medical costs are outragous it is not because of high paid doctors. The reasons are many, and most of them are driven by lawyer greed. Lawyers, who our political base consists of , have created industries through lawmaking that enhance their standings. Artificial industries.
I read a great book ..... " The Case Against Lawyers" by Catherine Crier. it should be a must read for politically minded people.

The English have a system whereby, if the party bringing the suit is proven to be of a frivolous nature, the lawyer is fined. This may be true in Ireland, Scotland, Wales, Gibraltar, ect... The judge plays a part too but it would seem he/she is wary of dismissing cases only to be overruled in another court & then possibly being criticized/fined(?)
Remember, having one's "day in court" is a very important feature of our rights. It is 1st amendment, in nature.
We must look into who is driving this restraining action. Remember, if lawyers lose, they don't get paid. My father was one & he said that it was rare he would take on a case unless he thought he could win. Otherwise, it would waste his & his clients time.
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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

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