No more politics!!!

Originally Posted by Cannibal2

I can't be sure if this is the case but I am curious about this particular comment: "There are a few theocratic persons in this country who would like to take away individual liberties from minorities,...." I wasn't expecting a "laundry list" of what is perceived as being wrong with the United States......

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Theocrat = person opposed the far left liberal agenda.

Originally Posted by limerickman

Personal responsibility ?
That's euphemism.
A cliche.

The fact is that ordinary everyday citizens have little control over their lives.

Originally Posted by ptlwp

When people want to legislate what people do in the bedroom, how research is conducted, how and what should be taught to our children, be it separation from church and state.....we quibble about "under God" in our pledges but half the kids who graduate, that's the least of their problems.

How about fighting for substance? Like a good education, that will be comparable to those that kids are getting in the rest of the first world nations. How about stop quibbling about whether or not child molesters should be taken care of and stopped; who in hell is FOR child molesters, it is a non sequiter.

We have been terrorized by the Mafia, the James Gang, Bank Robbers, Bonnie & Clyde, Al Capone, Black Panthers, Symbionese Liberation Army, those that put us into irreparable places like Viet Nam or Iraq. We are assaulted by violations from the FBI, CIA, in the name of homeland security, anything goes. We are terrorized by computers, database banks, Equifax and credit card companies. We are assaulted eventually by our social security numbers, our PIN numbers, hackers who assault on a almost daily basis.

We are assaulted by people who publically call for the assassination of other nation's leaders, without any type of reprisal. We are the new Imperialists, trying to shove our way of life down everyone elses throats.

We are terrorized by the governments who want to soak up every penny of oil money, before it's all gone. We are assaulted by those who block energy efficient heating, automobiles and the like and who keep us chained to fossil fuels.

We are trapped by politicians who play up to fears that people have concerning homosexuals, the poor, the jobless, the indigent, the sick and the mouths with no voice.

We are terrorized by newspapers and TV news owned by other countries who have no interest in a better America.

We are terrorized by having had regulations that helped to make life more equitable, unions, regulations of the FCC, monopolies, the right to strike and nearly every person who died in the Triangle Shirtwaist Factory is terrorized by the specter of big business trashing the health and welfare of the human beings, who they would like to replace, yet are so far, dependent upon.

We are a terrorized people from within and without. As the middle class is wiped out, so is the strength of this country, so are the people who once had a say, mute. There is no longer, a voice for the common man, and both parties have abandoned them and they (the common man) have been tricked by deceptive and inflammatory advertisements, playing up to fears and divided this country to a point of perhaps no return.....if Rome fell, can anything be safe?

We are terrorized by the specter of bankruptcy, just as we gloated about the Soviet Union, we are in the midst of bankrupting our own government with lavish spending on NASA, not repairing our infrastructure, entitlements that entitle the rich at the price of the poor and disenfranchisement by the politicians who stuff their own wallets while the rest of us sink into a mire, not even being allowed to declare bankruptcy, after all the cards have been stacked against them; after the banks have robbed them and let them borrow way beyond their means.

Yes, we are a terrorized people.........

Originally Posted by limerickman

Personal responsibility ?
That's euphemism.
A cliche.

The fact is that ordinary everyday citizens have little control over their lives.

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

When you stated before that you were for personal responsibility you really weren't?

You have a lot of control over your life. You can choose where you live, you can choose what you do for a living.
Live within your means. You don't have to charge on the credit card. That is unless someone is determined to keep up with what they're told they must have.

Originally Posted by 2FAST4U

Originally Posted by limerickman

And in principle I agree with the concept of personal responsibility.

But I dispute the level of control that one has over ones life.

It seems to me that people are regarded not as people but as units of labour, these days.
And yes, I think people should work.

But do employers pay people a fair days work for a fair days pay ?
Look at your own country - people who worked hard in manufacturing industries, hard working people are being let go from their jobs ?
How much personal responsibility do you attribute to that ?
Otherwise hardworking people let go simply because of the profit motive.

I think that those who lead the clarion call with cliches like "personal responsibility" need to consider the totality.
In the same way that those who expect a handout "as a right" need to consider the totality.

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

Personal responsibilty refers to the things in life that you can control. You have control over your own finances. You have control over your own personal choices.
Referring to your example. Are those hard working people members of a union? Did they continually ask for more money? Did they price them selves out of a job?

Originally Posted by limerickman

I would argue that personal responsibility is largely determined by ones economic circumstances and by ones envoirment.
If you're unfortunate enough to be born in to the ghetto, the chances are that you will live there for the rest of your days ?

As regards my example, I didn't specify whether the company was unionised.
But whether a company is unionised or not, the fact of the matter is that companies (unionised and non-unionised) have made redundant huge swathes of people, hardworking honest people.
And it is the company's perogative.

Originally Posted by Colorado Ryder

What does matter is if the workers priced themselves out of a job. I agree that there are some companies that move out based on profit. But there are some that do it just so that they can survive. The US car companies are an example of that.

I don't agree that because you were born in a ghetto means you'll live there forever. If someone has the will and the drive they can rise above anything.
Sure it will be a tougher road but it can be done.

Originally Posted by limerickman

And in principle I agree with the concept of personal responsibility.

But I dispute the level of control that one has over ones life.

It seems to me that people are regarded not as people but as units of labour, these days.
And yes, I think people should work.

But do employers pay people a fair days work for a fair days pay ?
Look at your own country - people who worked hard in manufacturing industries, hard working people are being let go from their jobs ?
How much personal responsibility do you attribute to that ?
Otherwise hardworking people let go simply because of the profit motive.

I think that those who lead the clarion call with cliches like "personal responsibility" need to consider the totality.
In the same way that those who expect a handout "as a right" need to consider the totality.

Originally Posted by 2FAST4U

No, but good observations ryder.