Armstrong used EPO in 99?

House

What have you brought to this forum other then being the grammar police? Why don't you try disputing what I actually said? I'd say you are a joke since all you can do is lay out insults without even being able to make any arguments. From the past? How about the various attempts to bust Lance by the French dispite no evidence. How about all the things listed in my last post that you so masterfully couldn't come up with anything but another immature, childish non-response. You are a troll if you refuse to discuss and only lay out insults. The shoe fits, wear it.

Jon Jonson

House and Spokeing are right. It is pretty simple. The "French" hate us for our freedoms.
Now care to address Veloflash's observations? Of is s/he a member of the French conspiracy?

Jon Jonson

Nothing like a typo to ruin an attempt at a witty reply. I meant to say "or", not "of", of course. But the question still stands.

Verite

I think I'll pass on that shoe my good man. Just out of curiosity do you suffer from retrograde amnesia? Do you remember our little exchange on the 'TiMan' thread? I offered arguments there that you've yet to address other than dismissing them as 'all over the place'. But I digress, concerning your "points" that you so proudly refer to, let me just ask you this, do you understand the meaning of the word anonymous? I think not, because your entire argument is predicated on the assumption that a certain party or parties knew that the samples in question belonged to Armstrong. But that's impossible because the samples were, wait for it, wait for it, that's right, ANONYMOUS! Let me explain it to you, anonymous means that the testers had no idea whose samples they were analyzing so they could not have 'framed' Armstrong by contaminating them as you seem to imply in your original post. Also, you're incorrect in your statement that the only samples that were positive were Armstrong's, there were six other positive samples detected. As far as your assertion that the evidence should be questioned because it was L'Equipe that broke the story, could you please strenghten that position by providing evidence of them 'going after' Armstrong in the past? It seems to me that what they are doing and what they have done in the past is simply report on issues related to cycling. Let me just finish with this, you are right about one thing House my man. I really should stop with the insults, its too easy. I think shooting at a barn or at fish in a barrel would be more difficult.

Verite

Oh, and one more thing, its despite not dispite. What sort of grammer cop would I be if I didn't point that one out? Like I said before, its like shooting at a barn.

3_days

Should we expect that other riders will face similar accusations as a result of positive EPO test results? Where are the papers linking the other 6 positives???

Whether he's dirty or not, doesn't it seem a little suspicious that they "stumbled" onto a positive result linked to Armstrong ...

... and given the widespread alleged use of EPO, doesn't only 6 positives sound a little low ...

VeloFlash

L'Equipe is looking to identify the other 6 samples.

I would speculate that as the 70 "B" samples came from different stages that would have included testing of the stage winner and the yellow jersey it would not be too difficult to guess that if 6 of the 12 had the same identification code it would be related to a high profile rider.

That would have stirred L'Equipe into action.

Remember, the French urine EPO test could only detect the use of EPO within 3 days of administering so if EPO had widespread use a number of the tests on the remaining 58 samples, if they were EPO users, would not return positive if they were taken outside this window.

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whiteboytrash

huhenio

So Maradona was not framed in his 3 consecutive "random" tests when the World Cup was held in the U.S. ...

I dont BELIEVE that Armstrong NEVER took and enhancing drug, as much as I dont BELIEVE that the body responsible for testing is not hunting down Armstrong.

It is hard for me to believe either of them.

Anyhow ... he is great.

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Chance3290

You know the French, they love a product with vintage.
"You fool...take this 2000 away and bring me a '99."

But let's remember the French national motto: "If we cannot beat you, or collaborate with you, then we'll discredit you."

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Roadrash Dunc

Exactly , along with every other main contender no doubt.
I'll remind you of your fine upstanding morals when a string of other high profile riders get nailed in the coming days.
Pantani and Ullrich won the previous 2 years , which are being tested on it seems.
1998 has revleared 40 positive tests.Interesting to see how that pans out.
We'll have to go down to 15th on GC to see a clean rider - we going to retrospectively award a TdF to some guy who finished a few hours off the pace? Thats sensible

Spectatorsport

From a quite an extensive web search and on Pubmed I found that the half life of EPO is very short from 10 hrs to 24 hrs. Half life is the time it takes for a substance to break down until their is just 50% of the original. If I remember my high school chemistry right. So I would expect EPO would degrade so much it wouldn't be in the system even when frozen. So I'm confused on how the EPO could still be in 'Lance's urine' after almost 5 years and the other samples from other riders. Also in your urine, can you possibly do a DNA test? Since I'm sure there would be some cells (if they haven't been busted from the freezing) there to determine if that sample really is Lance's?

http://www.syntnx.com/anemia.php
http://www.med.howard.edu/pharmacol...oetin_Hemo1.htm
http://www.fda.gov/medwatch/SAFETY/2005/Aranesp_PI.pdf#search='erythropoietin%20half%20life'

I also saw another article from http://www.velonews.com/news/fea/8746.0.html , which interviewed the director ( Doctor Christiane Ayotte ) of the top anti-doping lab in Canada, who were very surprised that one could even detect a sample after so much time even when frozen. I wonder if anyone on the boards is more qualified to speak on the subject what the half life of EPO in storage.

Posted on the other forum.

mtnbiker371

Apparently, EPO doesn't remain in urine for more than a very short time. And it looks like the lab didn't actually re-test 6 year old urine. Rather, they applied a new/modified mathematical model to the original test data from 6 years ago. So this seems like it is all just math. Who knows. I DO wish Lance would say something more on this issue though....

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Spectatorsport

Another poster pointed out in another thread the stuff I posted might be refering to metabolic half life, not 'chemical half life'. I'm not sure. So since the EPO was in the urine, it might not breakdown as fast or at all.