Page 9 - My experince with drugs and blood doping

20-08.-2006, 11:24 PM	#121
lonympics Registered User Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 15	Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping http://www.lonympics.co.uk/fantasy/cycling.htm A game where you can win teh Tour De France and take back teh Yellow Jersey

17-09.-2006, 05:26 AM	#122
Frigo's Luggage Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,176	Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping Wayne, Just because the guy survived cancer doesn't mean he is a good guy. Just because he is doing good by fighting cancer doesn't mean he is clean. You want evidence he doped? Well, there is the six positive tests from the 1999 Tour. He will say that he was exonerated. However, the report that the UCI commissioned was prepared by a Belgian doping defense lawyer. And, it did not conclude that he didn't dope. It just concluded that he couldn't be punished for it. If you think this white wash by the UCI means he is innocent, you must be naive. The UCI's job is to promote cycling. Why would they do anything but protect the image of cycling's most recognizable face? Lets look at more evidence: 1. USPS former head soigner, Emma O'Reilly, says he doped. She has first hand knowledge. 2. Most of his liutenants doped: Hamilton, Landis, Heras and now Andreu. 3. Lemond says Armstrong admitted doping to him. 4. Former Motorola rider Steven Swart says Armstrong doped. 5. Ferrarri is his doctor-need I say more? 6. Unmarked Mercedes remove bags of syringes and Actovegin from the USPS team bus during the Tour and dump the stuff in the woods. 7. Traces of corticoids found during a test during the 1999 Tour. I'm sure that I will think of more. The worst part about this guy is he claims to be anti-dope. However he harrasses the guys that speak out about doping. He chases down Simeoni, tells Bassons to quit and blasts Andreu. This guy is a hypocrite. I'm glad he is gone. My vote is that he is not clean. Of course, there is no evidence... Frigo

28-10.-2006, 04:37 PM

#123

b3n

Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2005

Posts: 2

Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frigo's Luggage

Wayne,

Lets look at more evidence:

1. USPS former head soigner, Emma O'Reilly, says he doped. She has first hand knowledge. - was sacked so has axe to grind, also was paid to give interview

2. Most of his liutenants doped: Hamilton, Landis, Heras and now Andreu. none whilst at USPS, no proof again

3. Lemond says Armstrong admitted doping to him. - more sour grapes from lemond

4. Former Motorola rider Steven Swart says Armstrong doped. - swarty is a well known user, was sacked by usps

5. Ferrarri is his doctor-need I say more? - so, he knows more about cycling training that anyone

6. Unmarked Mercedes remove bags of syringes and Actovegin from the USPS team bus during the Tour and dump the stuff in the woods. - how do you know this is fact

7. Traces of corticoids found during a test during the 1999 Tour. - prove nothing

I'm sure that I will think of more.

The worst part about this guy is he claims to be anti-dope. However he harrasses the guys that speak out about doping. He chases down Simeoni, tells Bassons to quit and blasts Andreu.

This guy is a hypocrite. I'm glad he is gone. My vote is that he is not clean. Of course, there is no evidence...

Frigo

How about people look at the problems now with basso, landis etc and sort that rather than chase ghosts from the past?

08-11.-2006, 02:26 PM	#124
Frigo's Luggage Registered User Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 1,176	Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping Because Lance owns a Pro Tour team. He is not the past. He is current.

09-11.-2006, 04:49 PM	#125
nl5xbb Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	corticosteroids "Armstrong is a doper as he had a corticosteroid in his system...he has been caught!!!...but most believe his cover up. Don't you get it bro......riders don't just "miss" seeing a corticosteroid in a medicine...it does not happen. The team doc goes over everything with a "fine tooth comb". And besides no rider in his right mind would ever use a cream with a corticosteroid because, as I said, it thins the skin and this all Cat 2 riders and above know." I am not a cyclist but a bodybuilder. I came across this site as I was interested in learning a bit more about EPO. I have extensive first hadn knowledge of AAS(Anabolic/androgenic steroid) use. The problem with the corticosteroid argument is this. Coricosteroids DO NOT have any anabolic effect. Corticosteroids consist of Cortisol and the like. Is cortisol a performance enhancer? No. It helps by destroying nerve cells and is injected into boxers hands (football players used to have it injected into there knees to try and get a few more weeks out of a seriously damaged joint). It is in fact very bad for long term performance. The corticosteroid argument does not hold water. I also noticed a problem with Ti-Mans original post. He stated that it took him a while for his sexual function and testosterone levels to bounce back. This leads me to believe that he did not follow a proper PCT (Post cycle therapy). It is extremely import for anyone who uses AAS to follow proper pct. At the very least take clomid (clomiphene citrate) after finishing your AAS cycle. Depending on which ester you employ determines how long you wait from your last shot. Hope this helps.

20-12.-2006, 04:37 PM

#126

Quadsweep

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2005

Posts: 191

Re: corticosteroids

Quote:

Originally Posted by nl5xbb

"Armstrong is a doper as he had a corticosteroid in his system...he has been caught!!!...but most believe his cover up. Don't you get it bro......riders don't just "miss" seeing a corticosteroid in a medicine...it does not happen. The team doc goes over everything with a "fine tooth comb". And besides no rider in his right mind would ever use a cream with a corticosteroid because, as I said, it thins the skin and this all Cat 2 riders and above know."

I am not a cyclist but a bodybuilder. I came across this site as I was interested in learning a bit more about EPO. I have extensive first hadn knowledge of AAS(Anabolic/androgenic steroid) use. The problem with the corticosteroid argument is this. Coricosteroids DO NOT have any anabolic effect. Corticosteroids consist of Cortisol and the like. Is cortisol a performance enhancer? No. It helps by destroying nerve cells and is injected into boxers hands (football players used to have it injected into there knees to try and get a few more weeks out of a seriously damaged joint). It is in fact very bad for long term performance. The corticosteroid argument does not hold water.

I also noticed a problem with Ti-Mans original post. He stated that it took him a while for his sexual function and testosterone levels to bounce back. This leads me to believe that he did not follow a proper PCT (Post cycle therapy). It is extremely import for anyone who uses AAS to follow proper pct. At the very least take clomid (clomiphene citrate) after finishing your AAS cycle. Depending on which ester you employ determines how long you wait from your last shot.

Hope this helps.

Hmmmm, interesting.

Last edited by Quadsweep : 20-12.-2006 at 04:44 PM.

20-12.-2006, 04:38 PM

#127

TiMan

Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Recovery is the Golden Fleece and almost nobody gets it right

Posts: 484

Re: corticosteroids

Quote:

Originally Posted by nl5xbb

Corticosteroids speed recovery by dampening the inflamatory response. They are used all the time in cycling. They help you train hard without over training.

As far a PCT is concerned I did it right bro.....I used clomid at 300mg on day one post cycle starting about 2 weeks after my last test cyp injection....then I did 100mg a day for a week and then 50 mg a day for three weeks.
Trouble is I stayed on the test for over 5 months and that shrunk my balls so they took a while to get kick started by the clomid. Clomid blocks estrogen at the hypothalamus so more gonadotropin releasing hormone is sent to the pituitary ...and then the pituitary will release my LH to tell the balls to get going with the testosterone production.

I should have taken "Realgains" advice and used HCG during the cycle to prevent ball shrikage. If you have been around the bodybuilding forums you will know about "Realgains"....he is a guru when it comes to steroids etc.

20-12.-2006, 07:36 PM	#128
nl5xbb Registered User Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 4	Re: corticosteroids Had I known you were on for over 5 months I would have suggested hcg during cycle as well. FYI, not sure if you are still interested, check out toremeifene I used it after my last cycle did wonder for me and I was on 20 weeks of a heavy dose test/deca cycle. I did not know that about corticosteroids. While it allows you to train longer but decreasing inflammation would it not then hurt performace gains as inflammation is good for muscel size? Here is an example, PGF2-alpha, a postaglandin works by causing inflammation in the muscle cells, it is a great muscle builder. Now this is not considering or taking into account exogenous use of it simply what is in your body normally. If you take an NSAID it will prevent inflammation but right there it will happer your gains. Sure you can train longer but you are doing more damage than you can recover from no? I mean, I know muscle growth comes from tearing down muscle tissue and then with proper rest and nutrition the cells will regenerate/increase in size. If you traing longer than is normally possible (w/o the help of AAS or any serious anabolic promoting supplement for that matter) you will not be able to recoup the loss? Or am I missing something serious here. I could see working out longer but needing more rest to recover would cause you to have the same net amount of work done. So therefore you may as well not take it. Cortisol, I have heard of it used in endurance events, to increase pain threshold but it is ultimately very damaging (i maybe completely full of S*** so let me know here), and therefore for an athlete who wants a full career and not just "one more round/mile/touchdown" it would not be helpful. Let me know.

21-12.-2006, 02:26 AM	#129
Quadsweep Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 191	Re: corticosteroids Very interesting.

21-12.-2006, 03:45 AM

#130

Felt_Rider

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2004

Posts: 1,232

Re: corticosteroids

Quote:

Originally Posted by nl5xbb

I could see working out longer but needing more rest to recover would cause you to have the same net amount of work done. So therefore you may as well not take it. Cortisol, I have heard of it used in endurance events, to increase pain threshold but it is ultimately very damaging (i maybe completely full of S*** so let me know here), and therefore for an athlete who wants a full career and not just "one more round/mile/touchdown" it would not be helpful.

Let me know.

You are right

Increased cortisol (known as the catabolic hormone) levels are something I would like to see in my competition and not in me.

21-12.-2006, 06:56 AM

#131

nl5xbb

Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2006

Posts: 4

Re: corticosteroids

Quote:

Originally Posted by Felt_Rider

You are right

Increased cortisol (known as the catabolic hormone) levels are something I would like to see in my competition and not in me.

I may have missed something but I got this as an automated message from the board.
<><>
"I am not into doping any more as I no longer compete with the "big boys".

Good points. I was never a 'believer" in cortico's for the reasons you site.....but taken for short periods of time they don't seem to have negative affects only positive for the endurance athlete....although the positives are not that great.

EPO is the real "boon" to the cyclist. Testosterone and "some" steroids taken in small doses hep with recovery and prevent catoblism when training hard for extended periods. The best steroids seem to be stuff like EQ and Primo as they are milder than say Trenvolin acetate. Testosterone is very powerful but taken in mslal does it is magic.
GH and IGF-1 help but are not as helpful. Testosterone taken in small doses of about 100mg a week along with EPO do "it all" in my opinion. Basically you want your test levels to be a bit above high normal...say at 1500 ng/dl...but nowhere near as high as in bodybuilding, where 400mg as week is considered a pretty moderate dose of test. If a cyclist took that much test he would gain too much water weight, even with estrogen blockers like Arimidex, and he would gain too much muscle mass too.

Muscle mass is avoided by cyclists. Basically we want to be sticks in the upper body with some but minimal mass in the legs. Just take a look at Armstrong for example. He was once, and now is again since retirement, a man with a "swimmers body"....more upper body mass. He never had decent leg size and still doesn't.
The tour winning rider that comes to mind that had the most muscle mass was Greg Lemond for sure...he even had some upper body."

<><>Now I somehow did not see this in thread only in my emails from site admin. His response begs to differ (pointing out I am full of S***). But he seems to claim it only makes sense for short periods of time. If that is the case then why in the hell did armstrong have it in his system? Would this be something used during the event or for training?

I love using "Cheque drops (milbolerone" Before boxing but would never even try to cycle it. Is this how cortisol is used?

Also, you point out igf-1 and GH are great and I think they would be. Have you looked into the newer igf analogs or the Interleukins?

Recently pegylated-MGF (mechano growth factor) has gained alot of popularity, also IL-15 shows boat loads of rpomise, if people can figure out how to not kill themselves with it. What about myostatin blockers, or is that actually disadvantageous to cyclist? I would assume since it causes more in the way of strength than size per say it would be helpful?

Also, how do you guys run epo? I have heard of BBers using (Andreas Munzer killing himself with it comes to mind) but in a far different format than you would.

21-12.-2006, 07:47 AM	#132
Felt_Rider Registered User Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 1,232	Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping The only thing I find positive about cortisol is the ability to block pain during a sporting event. However, I believe many retired professional athletes that competed in impact event like the NFL are near crippled later in life because these types of steroids are used to block the pain during the season and yet the injury continues to digress rather than heal. I have found no other legitimate study stating that there is an increase in performance from the increase in cortisol level, natural or synthetic. I also find it odd to use anabolics and cortisone injection at the same time since each interfere with each other in binding to the receptor. In a sense blocking one or the other out. However, many people do this temporarily because of the statement above and that is to block pain during the event. Otherwise it is more beneficial to reduce cortisol levels as much as possible (for a natural or a PED user). Cortisone (ACTH)injections can also weaken the immune system and increase the risk of colds or flu. The positive for a cyclist perhaps could be the muscle wasting aspect for a larger more muscular athelete. It is also said to impact mood which may be a positive depending on the person and the event, but AAS also impact the mood potentially making a much more aggressive athlete. Link Link My background was primarily in bodybuilding and powerlifting and my experience and use back in the day was primarily PED's associated with those events. I have no experience with EPO so I will avoid that conversation. Present day I get the opportunity to every now and then to tell other athletes my testimony of how PED's nearly destroyed my life, legally, relationally and physically.

05-01.-2007, 09:09 AM

#135

ilpirata

Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2004

Posts: 316

Re: My experince with drugs and blood doping

First I thankyou for your candid post. And I have no problem with you having a certain opinion that Armstrong used banned enhancers, or believing the word of Lemond that he didn't. Or if you believe that all the top riders are doing something on the pro-tour. You are free to believe and say what you believe. But I would like to know how you publish that Marco Pantani won the tour de france with hematocrit above 55%. How do you have this knowledge?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiMan

I took 175 mg of testosterone per week by injection for one season.The ability to recover after repeated hard days was unreal. This dose of testosterone put my testosterone level above 1000ng/dl...about twice what a normal male puts out.
This is what the test does....it helps you recover. You can also get down below 6% body fat without loosing any muscle mass. On the down side test, and all steroids, will make you hold water weight and I was holding about 5 pounds I think. The water, however, is mainly intramuscular and it helps with strength a lot.

Sides.....acne, lost a bit of hair, and of course even a small dose of testosterone will shut down your natural testosterone production completely. When you stop it takes a while before your natural testosterone level comes back and you feel tired and with no sex drive at all.
Testosterone and all steroids will make your good cholesterol(hdl) basically disappear as well while "on" the stuff.

I also used EPO for 4 months 4000 iu's injected sub Q in the lower belly fat once a week to build, and then 1000 a week to hold. 4000iu's will bring your hematocrit up 1% a week.
I went up to 54% but even at 50%, the legal limit in the pro ranks , my performance was unreal.
My sustainable power output went from 350 to 420 in three months!!! That's a 20% gain!!!

Sides.....none because I checked my crit every three days with a portable crit tester.
I also NEVER got dehydrated and never went above 54%.
If anyone does not test their hematocrit at least weekly then they are idiots plain and simple.

Anyone that goes above 55% is an idiot because at night when your heart rate and blood pressure drops you can DIE simply because the heart is not getting enough oxygen.
By the way Riis and Pantani were well above 55% when they won "the tour".

At the time I was racing Cat 1 and I can tell you that most of the guys that were really good riders were on EPO or at least blood doping.

Now for the VERY COMMON way to blood dope.
Our team doctor would take about a liter of blood out of each of us a couple months before a big race. Then he would spin it in a centrifuge to rid the blood of plasma...what was left was pure red blood cells(packed cells). He would then drain the blood into blood bags, put preservative in it and put the whole nine yards in a frige at 33 degrees F. The day of the race we would infuse our own blood back. Each unit of packed cells(about 300cc) would increase our hematocrit about by 3!!! so if you infused 3 units you jumped 9 points....like from 45 to 54%!!!

Now I don't think that anyone should use drugs. I for one didn't like myself while I was "on". I always wondered about the guys in the back of the pack...what if they took drugs...maybe they would kick my ass. What about the pro's that don't use drugs ....maybe they would kick Armstrongs ass too.

SO...anyone who believes that Armstrong or any other top pro or even any top Cat 1 national level rider is clean simply lacks high level racing experince. Armstrong is an asshole for saying he has is clean......Greg Lemond know better. I do NOT wear the yellow wrist band!!!

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