EU Constitution

Carrera

The Dutch are likely to follow the French and also reject the constitution.
It comes as no surprise really. I think these E.U. bureacrats should start planning a typically E.U. constitution that takes European history and concerns into account, rather that simply trying to compete with the U.S. (by copying American economic models).
The thing is, U.S. States are made up of mostly English-speaking Europeans, blacks and Asians while Europe is a multi-lingual, more diverse union of distinct cultures and peoples (of various languages). There has to be more autonomy for member states and more sensitivity to historical differences.
I don't think the E.U. will fail due to this vote and maybe something good will come of it. The French have spoken from the heart.

MountainPro

yep, seems like this piece of paper is about as popular as a fart in an elevator...

el Inglés

I´m pleased that the French voted no .
It seems to me that the whole idea is dumb : the EU got to be what it is the way that America did , bit by bit , and that the whole thing needs to " grow " in the way IT needs not the way a small group of politicians want it to .
¿ do you remember the old joke about a camel being a horse that was designed by a committe ?

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' too old to rock 'n' roll : too young to die '

davidmc

It would seem ripe for abuse. Large bureaucracies tend to have a large amt. of redundancy which, in turn, equates to waste. It would make yourselve's a more formidable economic entity but, at a loss to individual, state, sovereignty .

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Carrera

That's the point exactly. Seems to me like there is such an obsession over beating the U.S. economy, we're in danger of losing the high standard of living Europeans have enjoyed for decades.
The crucial point however is immigration and culture, plus the fears in France over Turkey. You have small countries such as Holland and Estonia with their own languages and traditions but such countries are at risk through loss of autonomy. The danger is also that smaller countries and cultures could be overwhelmed by people migrating from larger countries.
O.K. in the U.S.A. this has never been such a problem but Europe is far older than the U.S. and there are far more cultural sensitivities, different languages, histories and identities.
When you get down to the basics, the French have rebelled against the attack on France as a nation with its own language and autonomy. The French simply don't want thousands of people from Turkey or Poland or Romania pouring into France and taking French jobs or undercutting French labour. Whichever way you look at it, such a policy is bad for the average French worker who, at this point, doesn't have the option of migrating to Poland until the Poles build up their present economy to match the French and Germans.
The mindset in France is far more nationalistic than you would find in England and, above all, French workers would never tolerate the labour conditions and pensions Brits have been willing to accept as the norm over the last few decades.
Thatcher would never have survived more than a few weeks in France as there would literally have been mass unrest and mayhem till she was literally forced out of office. Sometimes this is the only way workers can protect themselves from politicians and big companies.

davidmc

What now I think the American, Republican, Administrations war, now judging by the Downing Street Memo which states that it was planned WELL IN ADVANCE of their supposed request to use force if necessary, made the French think again on the subject. Why aren't impeachment proceedings for Bush Inc. being drawn up

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

limerickman

Just reading the coverage of the Dutch referendum and their decision to vote Nee.
It seems that the Dutch people believe that the creation of the Euro has caused a lot of problems for their economy in the past 4 years.
They're also concerned that as a founding member of the EC (EEC and EU) that
enlargement has seen their influence diminish with the passage of time.
They also feel that their enshrined values of freedom in their Constitution and
Law would also be put at risk if they voted to endorse the EU Constitution.

So all in all, I can understand their reasoning for rejecting the EU Constitution.

I think that this is a crisis now.

I know a lot of us here in Europe still consider ourselves to be a collection of countries within the EU.
But with the creation of the Euro, our economic fates are linked to each other.
The rejection of the Constitution by two countries, prevents it from being ratified, even if the other 23 countries decide to ratify.
It's either all or nothing.

British and Irish media don't appear to be taking this issue seriously - they still think national politics is more important.
While not suggesting that national politics is lesser, I think that the crisis that
the EU may be heading for is being underplayed.

darkboong

Strongly disagree. Sure, the constitution ain't likely to go through, but so what ? The EU was around before it, and it will be around after it. For some reason the Media prefers to fabricate hysteria when there are plenty of genuine sources for hysteria out there (eg: Bird Flu, AIDS, Dr.Strangelove dictating US policy etc).

davidmc

I thought I had heard, thru a reputable American Media outlet, that the Constitution can be rewritten to appease voting members concerns Then it can be voted upon again, no?

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )