Seattle high school seeks military recruiter ban

roadhog

Maybe you should read the post to which I responded again about what was being argued. No references to the current conflict, but clear religion based implications as to the ramifications of military service.

I agree.

ghostpedal

The war isn't about Halliburton or oil. That's a naive take on it from left-wingers who think that all wars are evil. I do not have to provide proof that middle-eastern religious fanatics want all non-muslims dead, as their very own statements and actions make that well clear. The same thing goes for their feelings about democracies. All western people are viewed as unholy infidels whether located overseas or at home, and there is no rational explanation for that. While not all suicide bombers target nonmilitary targets, there are many who do, and because of that many innocents die. These are the type of people who flew aircraft into the WTC, and that was not a military target, it was wrong. I don't care how they see the kidnapping and beheading of people, it's wrong. There was a false story about US soldiers flushing the Koran (an unliving and replaceable book), and murderous riots ensued because prisoners were being "tortured". Western prisoners get their heads cut off on camera and televised, and that is just fine. This is the type of fanatics we are dealing with. You need to search out news about how the vast majority of people in Iraq are extremely happy to be free from Saddam and his evil regime, and welcome the chance to truly change their country and their way of life. I realize this sort of news is harder to get because of the media's penchant for pushing bad stories versus good ones, but it does exist. I'm tired of people touting the line that we need to understand these people and be more tolerant. How about them understanding us and being more tolerant. The United States is very tolerant, and if anything, borders on too tolerant as to not hurt anyone's feelings. How come Westerners are always held to such lofty standards, while barbarians just need to better understood? Muslims are welcome in the United States, and there are many. We do understand. We understand freedom - not all do.

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roadhog

Where is the contradiction? Of course those in uniform know of the danger and inherent risk they signed themselves up for. That does not mean they go around hoping for violent conflict. Based on your posting history, you clearly hold the British Army in high regard. Don't you think there are plenty of competent, professional, God-fearing, dedicated career soldiers in the British Army who understand the importance of the existance of their profession but yet do not hope to be called to put their skills to real use? They strive to be the best in case their service is called upon, but that does not mean they are blood-thristy war-mongers. Certainly there are exceptions but I'm discussing the institution as a whole.

limerickman

I think you make a very crude generalisation here.
Iagree that there are some terrorist organisation that are "muslim".
But I draw a distinction.
Not all Muslims are terrorists and not all terrorists are "muslim"



Some terrorists hijecked an aircraft and flew it in to a build in YOUR country.
This was a terrible act.
But you claim that these people hate democracy.
How do you know ? You make a generalised statement. These people never attacked you or I persoanlly, have they ?
I agree, beheadings are wrong - so is dropping bombs from miles away on innocent people. So there is blood on both sides.
Whether one commits murder using a sword to cleave off someoneshead or fires a cruise missile from away, does not mitigate.
Death is death.

As regards the desecration of the Koran - you refute the findings of your own FBI ?





If Iraqi people were happy with your country's invasion of their country, your country's forces wouldn't be subject to constant attack ?
The fact of the matter is that your country has no business being in Iraq.
That is the bottom line.
All of the excuses/reasons/justification for your invasion of Iraq have been shown to have been a tissue of lies.

I am not saying that SH was a great guy. But the changing of regimes is illegal under international law.

Your country broke international law when it decided to invade Iraq.
Iraq posed no threat to the USA.
Iraq did not pose an international threat.
Iraq did not even pose a regional threat.
We know this now and your political chiefs knew this back then when they decided to invade Iraq for it's oil.

jhuskey

I would go so far as to state that if the internet existed 2000 year ago there may have been people having a similar discussion as this one.
War and killing are not new concepts,the technology to carry out the threat has gotten much more effecient.

Will the concept of war, control and conquest be eliminated? Not in my lifetime!
Compassion,tolerance and understanding are also not new concepts.
Have they evolved in 2000 years? I am not sure.

Do I wish to kill someone this very minute? No!
Would I kill or injure to protect myself and or my loved ones? Yes I would.
Until everyone can agree that they would not,I do not see a lot of change fothcoming. Until one life is worth more than all beliefs and ideologies life will be at wholesale prices.
So I guess I am also bear some guilt for the state of mankind.
Who will be the judge of who is right and who is wrong?
The last man standing,I suppose.

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DiabloScott

Lim: The first step toward impeachment is happening now. It's a very preliminary step and I don't know how far it will get, but we're going to give it a roll.

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limerickman

Is there a move to impeach Bush ?

I wasn't aware that there was such a move.

darkboong

So, provide a direct quote that says exactly that.

I can find statements by American religious fanatics saying similar stuff about Muslims :
"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

I bet if I trawl through the shitpile of Christian fundamentalist quotes I could find something stronger.



Again, I suspect that they appear irrational because you refuse to acknowledge any grievance they have.



The weight of evidence suggests it is true. I look at it this way : Several inmates of "Gitmo" as you folks love to call it have complained about the Koran being abused *long* before the Newsweek report. Furthermore : There is an FBI report that corroborates the claims. The folks who are claiming otherwise have zero credibility because they pushed the WMD/9-11 conspiracy theories about Iraq. In the case of the Whitehouse they *have* to deny it because they are directly implicated in the torture used and they are pathological liars.



That's not fine. It's as non-fine as the pictures of wounded unarmed Iraqi PoWs being shot at point blank by a US soldier (who was later cleared of misconduct - what a joke that was).



Not denying that either, I accept that.



Now you are sounding like GWB. Getting that "Feel Good" news is actually pretty easy.



Tolerance is a two-way street. Folks who advocate attacking a country and killing thousands of Civillians in the process are not what I would call tolerant.



Nope, they are tolerant to keep the price of labour low. And no, the US is not at all Tolerant at the moment.



Are you equating Muslims to Barbarians, hmmm ?



Explain why have the hate crimes against Muslims risen by ~50% in the last year, hmmm ? Smells like intolerance to me.

jaguar75

How do you know this Lim?...Do you have first hand knowledge. Or are you basing this on all of the biased media reports?

I actually have several friends over there right now...one of which came home for 2 weeks last month. While at his house I asked him how everything was going...He told me that the Iraqi people love and thank American soldiers on a routine basis. When he walks down the street on patrol Iraqi children bring him flowers from time to time. The Iraqi people want Americans to leave now because they want to start rebuilding their country and the US will let that happen. The only problem is the Iraqi government is not yet capable to defend itself from the thousands of insurgents that pour across her borders on a regular basis. These are the people that are causing all of the problems. My buddy told me that Iraqi people routine beg and plead with the Syrians and Jordanians and Palestenians that are killing everyone to stop.

You want to tell people to stop, Limerickman, tell them to stop waging their own private war against the US and using the Iraqi people as shields and targets.

My buddy told me that he is gald he is there...he said he is scared but he will not come home until those people can life without fear. Pretty much all of the guys in his unit feel the same way.


You know, no one seemed to have a problem when the UN asked the Us to intervine in Bosnia and Mogadishu(spelling). It is so funny how when some ruthless dictator pops up on your side of the world, which seems to happen quite frequently, No other European nation wants to get their hands dirty. It is always the US that is called in. I know what it is...This gives you people the chance to pick and choose which conflict you are going to support based upon how it is handled. Give me a f***ing break

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"Perseverance is more prevailing than violence; and many things which cannot be overcome when they are together, yield themselves up when taken little by little" - Plutarch (46 AD - 120 AD)

snyper0311

Basically, the US will be "Dammed if we do and dammed if we don't." WE are constatntly being asked to intervene in other countries problems. If we do, it gets turned around to make us look like the bad guys. If we don't we automatically become the bad guys for not wanting to help.

It's not the Iraqi people who are causing the current problems in Iraq. It's the "Muslim religious fanatics" from surrounding countries that come in, start problems and then leave.

As far as the POW situation is concerned, they get what they deserve. All this BS about humaine treatment for prisioners is just that, BULL SHIT!!!! I'm sure our captured don't get the same treatment.

I WAS in Somalia during the conflict there. I DID witness how our troops were murdered when our Helicopter went down. So, I can imagine what our troops see with the current turn of events in Iraq.

We should be thanking those that are over there doing what others are too afraid to do!

jhuskey

I believe there have been several different factions that have introduced or attempted to introduce resolutions to Congress for impeachment proceedings.
My guess is that these will never get past committee let alone get as fas as a vote,but thats's just one persons opinion.

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DiabloScott

John Conyers is the ranking democrat on the House Judiciary Committee. He's taking seriously a request by several groups (including Constitutional litigators) to launch a formal investigation into Bush's deceit about the reasons for war. The Downing Street Memo figures highly in the evidence.

As I said, at this point it's just one step beyond coffee table talk, but it's the first step in the direction of impeachment. The result of this step would be an inquiry to whether sufficient grounds exist to impeach. I'm sure if anything comes of it you'll see it in the news.

BTW, "impeach bush" brings up some interesting sites on a Google search. Mostly whackos but a few well-organized under-funded groups too.

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Darjevon

change your avatar, man! i thought you were Jaguar475, and that youd had a revelation or sumthin!

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Darjevon

I disagree with that, as if I were to kill you, would you rather i "shot gunned" you in the head so youd feel no pain, or drove a whisk into your brain through your eye and defiled your remains with a chainsaw? **moderately psychotic**

__________________
My "hitlist" is as follows.

1. My mailman
2. George Bush
3. Mike Tyson
4. Condoleeza Rice
5. Zapper