Cycling and bicycle racing discussion forums.   View New Forum Topics
Today's Forum Topics

Set as homepage


Go Back   Cycling Forums > Other Stuff > Your Bloody Soap Box
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Welcome to CyclingForums.com

You are currently viewing our website as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions. You will have to register before you can post to this thread.

By joining our free online community you will have access to post new topics, communicate privately with other cyclingforums.com members (PM), respond to polls, upload photos and access other special features like product reviews and classifieds.


Bush's big lie

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-05.-2005, 01:17 PM   #1
Wurm
Registered User
 
Wurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
Angry Bush's big lie

By Robert Adler, eTalkinghead.com

" . . . the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy."

We went to war in Iraq at 5:30 a.m. Baghdad time on March 20, 2003.

For more than a year before we launched Operation Iraqi Freedom, the Bush administration went to great lengths to try to convince us and the rest of the world that the war was necessary because Saddam Hussein possessed and might use weapons of mass destruction--WMDs.

In the State of the Union message on January 29, 2002, President Bush said that Iraq was part of an "axis of evil" and vowed that the United States "will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons."



On February 5, 2003, then Secretary of State Colin Powell addressed the United Nations. He presented a detailed summary of what U.S. and other intelligence services supposedly knew about Hussein's WMDs. Powell concluded, "The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world."

In short, President Bush put his credibility, Powell's credibility, and our credibility as a nation on the line with the repeated assertion that Hussein possessed WMDs.

We all know that these WMDs were never found and did not exist.

On July 9, 2004 the Senate Intelligence Committee released its unanimous, bipartisan report on pre-war intelligence on Iraq. The committee harshly criticized the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies for "mischaractarizing" or "overstating" their findings. In other words, the blame was placed on the intelligence agencies for misinforming Congress and the President.

It turns out that the truth was very different.

By July 23, 2002, President Bush and his adminsitration had decided to go to war in Iraq. From that point on, a just-released secret memo reveals, ". . . the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

On May 1, 2005, the Sunday Times published a secret, "eyes only" memo that summarized a meeting between Tony Blair and his top advisors that took place on July 23, 2002. They were briefed by Richard Dearlove, then head of Britain's MI-6 intelligence agency, who was just back from consultations in Washington. Dearlove told Blain that U.S. military action was inevitable, and would be "justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD."

"It seemed clear that bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided," the summary continues. "But the case was thin."

(You can read the memo for yourself here.)

One might think that a thin case for a decision as weighty as taking the U.S. to war might be a problem. "But," Blair was assured, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Our intelligence agencies didn't get it wrong by accident. They got it wrong because they were told to plump up that thin case, to drum up enough noise to back Bush's WMD justification of the war. Why blame them? They were just following orders.

"Fixing" the intelligence doesn't seem to have been that hard for Bush and his team. Unfortunately, fixing the facts has turned out to be somewhat more difficult, as the failure to find WMDs, and the continuing chaos and carnage in Iraq show. Among the facts that are most difficult to fix are the 1,593 American soldiers who have died in Iraq so far, and the $300 billion the war has already cost us.

President Bush lied to us. He took us to war, he said, because Saddam Hussein had and might use WMDs. He told us that our intelligence agencies knew those WMDs existed. It was "a slalm dunk." Yet all the time he (and Tony Blair) knew perfectly well that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Policy first. Then the decision to go to war. Then fix the intellience and the facts to justify the war.

Which means that this President flat-out lied to the American people and the rest of the world, not about his sex life, but about starting a war.

Is this the President you want for the next three years?

--------------------------------------


Which then begs the question: Why are impeachment proceedings not underway in the U.S. House of Representatives?
__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.

Last edited by Wurm : 10-05.-2005 at 01:26 PM.
Wurm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 10-05.-2005, 11:52 PM   #2
MountainPro
Registered User
 
MountainPro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SCOTLAND...you know it.
Posts: 3,015
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Bush is in Georgia today greeting the people of the revolution...

he started his speech with the obligatory 'My fellow Merkins'..

one of his advisors leaned over and said, 'errr, we're not in Altanta sir, we are in Europe'...

Bush was given a word, one word only in Russian/Georgian (what ever they speak there) and it simply said 'hello'

he ballsed it up by completely mispronouncing it....he should really start with English...it was a bit too ambitious..

can you imagine a president of any other nation acting like that? seriously...

who ever coined the phrase fucktard* was completely correct..


*fuctard: noun- a very stupid ignoramus...quoted from a cycling forums member.

Last edited by MountainPro : 11-05.-2005 at 12:06 AM.
MountainPro is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 12:30 AM   #3
davidmc
Registered User
 
davidmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm
By Robert Adler, eTalkinghead.com

" . . . the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy."

We went to war in Iraq at 5:30 a.m. Baghdad time on March 20, 2003.

For more than a year before we launched Operation Iraqi Freedom, the Bush administration went to great lengths to try to convince us and the rest of the world that the war was necessary because Saddam Hussein possessed and might use weapons of mass destruction--WMDs.

In the State of the Union message on January 29, 2002, President Bush said that Iraq was part of an "axis of evil" and vowed that the United States "will not permit the world's most dangerous regimes to threaten us with the world's most destructive weapons."



On February 5, 2003, then Secretary of State Colin Powell addressed the United Nations. He presented a detailed summary of what U.S. and other intelligence services supposedly knew about Hussein's WMDs. Powell concluded, "The United States will not and cannot run that risk to the American people. Leaving Saddam Hussein in possession of weapons of mass destruction for a few more months or years is not an option, not in a post-September 11th world."

In short, President Bush put his credibility, Powell's credibility, and our credibility as a nation on the line with the repeated assertion that Hussein possessed WMDs.

We all know that these WMDs were never found and did not exist.

On July 9, 2004 the Senate Intelligence Committee released its unanimous, bipartisan report on pre-war intelligence on Iraq. The committee harshly criticized the CIA and other U.S. intelligence agencies for "mischaractarizing" or "overstating" their findings. In other words, the blame was placed on the intelligence agencies for misinforming Congress and the President.

It turns out that the truth was very different.

By July 23, 2002, President Bush and his adminsitration had decided to go to war in Iraq. From that point on, a just-released secret memo reveals, ". . . the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

On May 1, 2005, the Sunday Times published a secret, "eyes only" memo that summarized a meeting between Tony Blair and his top advisors that took place on July 23, 2002. They were briefed by Richard Dearlove, then head of Britain's MI-6 intelligence agency, who was just back from consultations in Washington. Dearlove told Blain that U.S. military action was inevitable, and would be "justified by the conjunction of terrorism and WMD."

"It seemed clear that bush had made up his mind to take military action, even if the timing was not yet decided," the summary continues. "But the case was thin."

(You can read the memo for yourself here.)

One might think that a thin case for a decision as weighty as taking the U.S. to war might be a problem. "But," Blair was assured, "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Our intelligence agencies didn't get it wrong by accident. They got it wrong because they were told to plump up that thin case, to drum up enough noise to back Bush's WMD justification of the war. Why blame them? They were just following orders.

"Fixing" the intelligence doesn't seem to have been that hard for Bush and his team. Unfortunately, fixing the facts has turned out to be somewhat more difficult, as the failure to find WMDs, and the continuing chaos and carnage in Iraq show. Among the facts that are most difficult to fix are the 1,593 American soldiers who have died in Iraq so far, and the $300 billion the war has already cost us.

President Bush lied to us. He took us to war, he said, because Saddam Hussein had and might use WMDs. He told us that our intelligence agencies knew those WMDs existed. It was "a slalm dunk." Yet all the time he (and Tony Blair) knew perfectly well that "the intelligence and facts were being fixed around the policy."

Policy first. Then the decision to go to war. Then fix the intellience and the facts to justify the war.

Which means that this President flat-out lied to the American people and the rest of the world, not about his sex life, but about starting a war.

Is this the President you want for the next three years?

--------------------------------------


Which then begs the question: Why are impeachment proceedings not underway in the U.S. House of Representatives?

Just as I have posted on numerous occassions in the past, "Bush Inc. use of whatever intel. suited their foregone conclusion (invasion) regardless of the intel's merit. They destroyed Powell's reputation & that's one reason why he left. He was the one dissenting voice & one of the FEW VETERANS THIS ADMIN. EVER HAD. The rest of them are civilian felon's
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Last edited by davidmc : 11-05.-2005 at 12:36 AM.
davidmc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 12:36 AM   #4
limerickman
Community Team
 
limerickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,644
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm
By Robert Adler, eTalkinghead.com

" . . . the intelligence and the facts were being fixed around the policy."

We went to war in Iraq at 5:30 a.m. Baghdad time on March 20, 2003.




Which then begs the question: Why are impeachment proceedings not underway in the U.S. House of Representatives?


Not wishing to steal your thunder but a lot of us put these points on the forum in the run up to the US Presidential election last November.
Your country insisted on re-electing Bush.
Which sends two messages.
The people of the USA supported Bush's policies and have neither the interest or the brain power to realise that Bush is destroying your country.
limerickman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 12:42 AM   #5
davidmc
Registered User
 
davidmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
Not wishing to steal your thunder but a lot of us put these points on the forum in the run up to the US Presidential election last November.
Your country insisted on re-electing Bush.
Which sends two messages.
The people of the USA supported Bush's policies and have neither the interest or the brain power to realise that Bush is destroying your country.

Remember, there are different factions of Bush voter's. There are the uber rich who could care less about any policy except where it will impact buisiness (e.g.-tax cuts/write-off's/havens), Evangelicals (this might or might not include the homophobe &/or anti-abortion faction), "Good ol' Boys" (beer swillin', NASCAR watchin', wife-beatin' types, ect...), People who beleived Kerry would have merely sat on the sidelines inre: taking the fight TO the terrorist's as opposed to letting them bring the fight to us, Britain, Spain, Russia, ect...&, finally, the "duped". Thats a very broad spectrum
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )
davidmc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 12:48 AM   #6
Carrera
Registered User
 
Carrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
Default Re: Bush's big lie

I think he gets very nervous during public speeches. Bush is very ignorant of other cultures and countries but he's smart with regard to American internal affairs. He's by no means stupid, as we assume in Europe. For example, he held his ground very well against John Kerry during the Presidential Debate and would know a great deal more about economics and legislation than I could possibly grasp. I think we write him off as a total ignoramus in Europe but he's not dumb - just isolationist.
Strangely enough he seemed to be getting on well with Putin in Russia, given the back slaps and jokes during their meetings.


Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainPro
Bush is in Georgia today greeting the people of the revolution...

he started his speech with the obligatory 'My fellow Merkins'..

one of his advisors leaned over and said, 'errr, we're not in Altanta sir, we are in Europe'...

Bush was given a word, one word only in Russian/Georgian (what ever they speak there) and it simply said 'hello'

he ballsed it up by completely mispronouncing it....he should really start with English...it was a bit too ambitious..

can you imagine a president of any other nation acting like that? seriously...

who ever coined the phrase fucktard* was completely correct..


*fuctard: noun- a very stupid ignoramus...quoted from a cycling forums member.
Carrera is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 12:49 AM   #7
limerickman
Community Team
 
limerickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,644
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmc
Remember, there are different factions of Bush voter's. There are the uber rich who could care less about any policy except where it will impact buisiness (e.g.-tax cuts/write-off's/havens), Evangelicals (this might or might not include the homophobe &/or anti-abortion faction), "Good ol' Boys" (beer swillin', NASCAR watchin', wife-beatin' types, ect...), People who beleived Kerry would have merely sat on the sidelines inre: taking the fight TO the terrorist's as opposed to letting them bring the fight to us, Britain, Spain, Russia, ect...&, finally, the "duped". Thats a very broad spectrum


I hear what you're saying but..........

If you listened to the foreign policy lies about Iraq, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
If you listened to the economic policy about the US economy, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
If you listened to Bush's envormental policy, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
The critical mass of the ineptitude of george Bush on these three policy issues alone, ought to have persuaded people in the USA not to vote Bush.

Which begs the question.
Obviously people thought that Bush's policies were acceptable to them.
limerickman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:00 AM   #8
Wurm
Registered User
 
Wurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
Not wishing to steal your thunder but a lot of us put these points on the forum in the run up to the US Presidential election last November.
I'm sure many have discussed this and other very important points here in the past. I just wanted some of the neo-con supporters here to see that there is now hard evidence implicating not only PM Blair, but by extension the GWB regime.

ie: there are no more excuses. Impeachment proceedings against the Bush/Cheney admin. should begin forthwith.

I have discussed these points in quite a bit of depth and detail on RBR's 'Politics Only' forum for the past couple of years.
__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.
Wurm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:09 AM   #9
limerickman
Community Team
 
limerickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,644
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurm
I'm sure many have discussed this and other very important points here in the past. I just wanted some of the neo-con supporters here to see that there is now hard evidence implicating not only PM Blair, but by extension the GWB regime.

ie: there are no more excuses. Impeachment proceedings against the Bush/Cheney admin. should begin forthwith.

I have discussed these points in quite a bit of depth and detail on RBR's 'Politics Only' forum for the past couple of years.


The evidence, or rather the lack of evidence to validate the US invasion of Iraq was always apparent.
Hans Blix, Robin Cook (British ex-foreign sec), Claire Short (ex British minister),
the CIA, MI6, all said that there was no evidence of WMD or of Saddam supporting the 9/11 attacks.
But still Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on a tissue of lies.

Unlike the USA however, Blair although re-elected is now a lame duck PM.
There are calls for him to be replaced because his party say that the public doesn't trust him.
limerickman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:09 AM   #10
davidmc
Registered User
 
davidmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
I hear what you're saying but..........

If you listened to the foreign policy lies about Iraq, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
If you listened to the economic policy about the US economy, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
If you listened to Bush's envormental policy, you'd be persuaded not to vote for Bush.
The critical mass of the ineptitude of george Bush on these three policy issues alone, ought to have persuaded people in the USA not to vote Bush.

Which begs the question.
Obviously people thought that Bush's policies were acceptable to them.

Those things are all important but thwarting/destroying terrorism is the linch-pin upon which all else rests. As you know, I didn't vote for him but he is more amenable to our blue-collar types (through his craftily made blurb's) & interestingly enough at the same time to the uber-rich. Rove is the one who has crafted his msg. to dupe the poor & not let on that they really cater to the elite.
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )
davidmc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:11 AM   #11
davidmc
Registered User
 
davidmc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: metro dc USA
Posts: 3,394
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
The evidence, or rather the lack of evidence to validate the US invasion of Iraq was always apparent.
Hans Blix, Robin Cook (British ex-foreign sec), Claire Short (ex British minister),
the CIA, MI6, all said that there was no evidence of WMD or of Saddam supporting the 9/11 attacks.
But still Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on a tissue of lies.

Unlike the USA however, Blair although re-elected is now a lame duck PM.
There are calls for him to be replaced because his party say that the public doesn't trust him.

You forgot to mention Scott Ritter who came out & denounced the unfounded allegations inre:WMD. He was our weapons inspector
__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )
davidmc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:16 AM   #12
Wurm
Registered User
 
Wurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Again, there is plenty of evidence extant to try these thugs, so it really doesn't require further rehashing. What needs to be done now is for American public to snap out of their apathetic, lazy stupor and start rattling Congress for a truly independent special investigation to be appointed, (not anything like what the shill 9/11 Commission was).
__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.
Wurm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:17 AM   #13
limerickman
Community Team
 
limerickman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,644
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidmc
Those things are all important but thwarting/destroying terrorism is the linch-pin upon which all else rests. As you know, I didn't vote for him but he is more amenable to our blue-collar types (through his craftily made blurb's) & interestingly enough at the same time to the uber-rich. Rove is the one who has crafted his msg. to dupe the poor & not let on that they really cater to the elite.


I realise that you didn't vote for him, Dave.

I still find it very hard to understand, given all that has come to pass, that people would still re-elect him.

The rest of the world took it's lead from the result, on the basis that his policies enjoy widespread support in the USA and that the will of the people has been affirmed by his re-election.
You can see it in the financial markets, essentially the world markets have decided that economic policy of the USA for the next three years will only do more damage to your country's economy.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who have to live in a country run by Bush.
limerickman is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:22 AM   #14
Wurm
Registered User
 
Wurm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,148
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman

I still find it very hard to understand, given all that has come to pass, that people would still re-elect him.
But you're forgetting one small detail LM - that GWB's "re-election" in '04 was a farce, just as his selection by the Supreme Court was in '00. The majority of American voters actually did NOT vote for him, as evidenced by U.S. Rep. John Conyers' report to Congress, which has been entered into the official Congressional record.

As long as the Repubs'/cons hold the majority in Congress, there will be no justice.
__________________
"Bush is the first President to admit to an impeachable offense."

- John Dean, former Counsel to the President (Nixon)

The aim of big corporations is to separate fools from their money all of the time and ordinary folks from their money most of the time. The rest of us must fend for ourselves.
Wurm is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old 11-05.-2005, 01:22 AM   #15
Carrera
Registered User
 
Carrera's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Staffordshire
Posts: 4,816
Default Re: Bush's big lie

Unfortunately, New Labour has been allowed to get away with something that simply ain't tolerable - lying to the nation. The people went out and voted Blair back into office, just as happened in the USA.
This is why Europe has a stronger democracy than we do over here. When Aznar lied to the Spanish over terrorism, he was sacked from office. The Spanish sent a message to say they disliked being lied to and they elected a totally new government.
When people voted Labour back in, they may have assumed the lies, arrogance and corruption would cease, once Blair had a bloody nose. I doubt this will happen. The Labour Party has had 7 years to get to grips with asylum immigration, bad class discipline and hospital queues.
Astoundingly, as a poke in the ribs to the public, Blair even reinstated David Blunkett - a man who made a total shambles of asylum and immigration and came up with the most repressive, anti-liberal, anti-democratic legislation ever seen since the days of Krushchev.
God help us is all I can say.


Quote:
Originally Posted by limerickman
The evidence, or rather the lack of evidence to validate the US invasion of Iraq was always apparent.
Hans Blix, Robin Cook (British ex-foreign sec), Claire Short (ex British minister),
the CIA, MI6, all said that there was no evidence of WMD or of Saddam supporting the 9/11 attacks.
But still Blair and Bush invaded Iraq on a tissue of lies.

Unlike the USA however, Blair although re-elected is now a lame duck PM.
There are calls for him to be replaced because his party say that the public doesn't trust him.
Carrera is offline  
Reply With Quote

Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



All times are GMT +10. The time now is 06:59 PM.


Powered by: vBulletin Copyright © 2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 2001 - 2006 cyclingforums.com

Links to websites we like:
Pezcyclingnews | Cyclingnews.com | Wine Zone | iinet