Things that piss me off about some Christians...

MountainPro

this conversation is taking a strange and slightly scary direction....i am going home to lock the doors.

jhuskey

Please note that my "key word" is "IF".

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limerickman

I'm happy that you clarified that JH.

I was starting to wonder.............................

BassDave

Adam and Eve, not married. Okay, let's discuss this part. A marriage can be seen as a covenant that God has brought two people together to live as husband and wife. In the Adam and Eve section of the Bible, God literally does this. To God, the marriage isn't the piece of paper given to you by the state, but the blessing given.

But to be honest, that has got to be one of the MOST lame arguments against Christianity I've ever heard. You mean to tell me that you actually "thoroughly confuse" people with that statment?

Carbon (C14) Dating is not reliable on fossils thought to be very old. Carbon 14 has a half life of close to 6000 years and not reliable on fossils over 30,000 years old. Potassium Argon is supposed to have a much longer halflife, though.

Just because some Christians claim a young Earth doesn't necessarily mean that they're correct. I personally believe that you can't take each of the Biblical days of creation as a literal day. Nor do I don't believe there is a way to quantify the amount of time that could have elapsed between "In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth", and "Let there be light." Or when there was the creation of species and how long they lived and for how many of OUR known years passed, in the way we lay out our calendar. I'm pretty sure that 'years' wasn't a concept at that time.

Anyway, this whole debate is mostly an excercise in futility. I've seen arguments on both sides with no one turning the other.

wilmar13

Ah something we all can agree on

MountainPro

so, you mean your not lying on your sofa right now rubbing baby oil into your nipples....?

thank god...

jhuskey

No I am not and I certainly hope you were not visualizing that.
Besides the hot tub is better for the "hot oil treatment".
Just kidding!

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wilmar13

The only thing that is true is that neither side has a monopoly on the truth. Those that think everything can be explained with a 5th grade science level theory of evolution have put about as much thought into it as the Pentecostal redneck that thinks the earth is 3000 years old and everything in the bible is to be taken literally. Maybe the latter may not have the ability to think, but to me it makes the former worse. For Christ's sake , even Jesus himself gave all his lectures in parables. Duh! Who cares if you think Jesus is the son of god, or a prophet, or a crazy cult leader? Everybody gets too hung up on the details and doesn't look at the big picture. Why is it that the fundamentals of Buddhism, Christianity, Islam, Judaism, etc. are all the same damn thing? Clearly evolution exists, at least within species, but it doesn't matter whether you think we evolved from a primordial cess-pool or from a Neanderthal man, or from Adam and Eve, what does that have to do with validating or invalidating someone's religion; in particular Christianity? I am an agnostic, but I have done enough reading to know that nothing Jesus said, did, or taught has any relation to whether Adam and Eve and Noah's arc existed. Great we evolved from an ameba, how does that change the message in the bible, or Jesus' teachings, etc.?
I do think the church does more damage to religion, at least to those that have brains, than it helps. But that is the nature of the beast, not everyone can or wants to really think about things, it is much easier to be told what to think (and this goes for both "sides"). The best thing you (darjevon, david MC, ryan velo) could do is seek out something written by some intellectual Christians or any religious/spiritual intellectual to open your mind. Or you can choose to maintain an ignorance that is equal to or greater than the well meaning monkeys you are trying to disparage. At least they can't help it...

jhuskey

[QUOTE=wilmar13]The only thing that is true is that neither side has a monopoly on the truth. Those that think everything can be explained with a 5th grade science level theory of evolution have put about as much thought into it as the Pentecostal redneck that thinks the earth is 3000 years old and everything in the bible is to be taken literally.

Correct me if I am wrong,but don't the fundametalist believe that the world is 10,000 years old. Not that a few thousand would make any difference when considering the accepted age is 4 billion years.

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wilmar13

Probably, but yeah 3,000, 10,000 years or 100,000 years same difference. Also there is a difference between the fundamentals of a religion (as in the traditional meaning of fundamentals), and fundamentalists which are almost always screwballs that totally lose sight of the true fundamentals.

BassDave

Yes, that is what you'd get as an answer from fundamental Christians. It is taken from all the 'begats' in the Bible, assuming length of generation, based upon what the writer knew at that time in history.

I go to a conservative Christian church. So I can speak to this with some level of authority. But, as I said in the above post, [and I repost] 'just because some Christians claim a young Earth doesn't necessarily mean that they're correct. I personally believe that you can't take each of the Biblical days of creation as a literal day. Nor do I don't believe there is a way to quantify the amount of time that could have elapsed between "In the beginning", "God created the heavens and the earth", and "Let there be light." Or when there was the creation of species and how long they lived and for how many of OUR known years passed, in the way we lay out our calendar. I'm pretty sure that 'years' wasn't a concept at that time.'

Carrera

I don't have any problems with Christianity - it's just I believe what Jesus taught and what the Church formed as doctrine are not one and the same thing. Doctrines such as the Trinity are essentially borrowings from other religions that pre-dated Christianity. Even the last supper was a spin-off from Greek Mystery religion. It's logical to assume cultural influence would have played a role in the final doctrine the Church came up with.
It would seem Jesus himself was a teacher from the strict, Jewish essene cult that favoured isolation from society and believed in the Messiah doctrine. He was certainly crucified under Pontius Pilate at the request of Herod.
The resurrection is a mystery. Did the followers make it up? Did Jesus never actually die (some people survived crucifixion on rare occasions). Certainly prior to Christianity, Greeks and Romans believed in a place called Hades or underworld. During gladiator combats, there was a guy who entered the arena and dragged off the dead gladiators dressed as Pluto, who symbolised the underworld. We know that the hell the Church preaches about existed as a concept way before it was adapted by the church.
Sure, Christianity has historical truth on its side and the events took place but what Jesus specifically taught has been dressed up by the clergy or influenced by other religions.
I won't mention Socrates of Fred C will go bananas.
As for creationism, you can't scientifically disprove the idea of a creater I don't think. Even the Egyptians believed in it and they knew all about the dog star before we had out advanced telescopes and satellites.

jhuskey

I am not very sympathetic to what I refer to as "extreme personalities". These can be hell raisers that are doing IV drugs and all of a sudden they get religion and are preaching to be about my wicked way that they are only in the assumption of.
They don't believe they have discovered religion,they think they invented and perfected it.
You know "deer rifle on a tower types".
I personally know one individual that "shot gunned" her husband in his sleep because she claimed abuse, got religion a few years later and looks down upon me because I have a few brews ocassionally on the weekend. So far I this week the only thing I have killed is a couple of cans Of Budweiser.
I know drinking American beer could be considered a sin.


Me and my evil ways,will I ever change?

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Fendercrazy

Why is this a bad thing?


Do you think it's only Christians who have this view?