Things that piss me off about some Christians...

DiabloScott

Atheism is not illegal in USA. References to god in oaths and other such requirements have gradually been phased out but may remain in some counties - courts are granted a lot of latitude in this matter but a witness in court could always ask for the secular version of the oath. Religious persecution against us heretics continues though.

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merrickster

You seem to be appealing to logic to support your augment that the beliefs of Christianity cannot be true. So lets analysis the positions of a Christian and an Atheist to see whether logically the Christian view of the world or an Atheist view is the more reasoned. You have used a rather simplified argument so I will attempt to respond in like manner.



Although this statement is a gross oversimplification, to Christians, at death a person will either end up in heaven or hell.



Now as a Christian if I live my life holding true to this belief, what have I lost? Sure I go to church now and then but that doesn’t take long. I might try to love my neighbour as myself and treat other people with consideration and respect, because that is Christian belief, but that does not hurt me and sometimes it makes another’s life a bit better. Because of my Christian belief I might stop and think twice before I cause an action that may hurt me or another, such as cheating another person etc..



At the end of the day if I am right in believing in Christ and following the Christian religion I expect I will go to heaven and all will be well. If I am wrong, and I have been believing a lie all my life, what have I lost, nothing that I can see. I will end up in the same place as everybody else and along the way I may have led a little better life.



On the other had if the Atheist is right what has he gained? Nothing again, as he will end up in the same place as everybody else no matter whether the person believes in Christ or not.



ON THE OTHER HAND, if the Atheist is wrong and the Christian is right, the Atheist has really mucked up his or her life because the Christian will be in heaven and the Atheist will be in hell and given a choice most people choose the former.



If a person is given a choice and thinks about it logically they will choose the Christian path every time. So be careful when you appeal to logical because one’s reason and logic are not abandoned when one believes in Christ.

davidmc

All of those things you mention are, I believe, pretty much ceremonial "hoolaboo" now. Many of the founders of this country were "diest's", more of a "nature" oriented belief system:

"Deism is a belief in God based on Reason, Experience and Nature (nature of the universe) rather than the divine revelations and holy texts of revealed religions. Essentially, through the use of Reason, God’s existence is revealed by the observation of nature and our own personal experiences. For the Deist, the order and complexity found in nature coupled with our rational experiences of nature leads to a belief in God."

Around 1/2 of the voting public, in this country, from the 1960's onward; has been marching steadily backwards. You can see it by the inroduction of creationism into the curriculum of schools in, more than a few, southern states. I believe it is a defense mechanism, not grounded in law, that believers invoke as the courts restrict observations of mostly christian ceremonies due to thier violation of rights of non-christians. I say-"more power to the court's" [w/ the caveat that they be empowered only when they are "liberal leaning" (read-"logical" )]
The Republicans love these fight's, that thier base brings up, such as -gay marriage, flag burning, under god screed, ect...because it distracts from the repub's primary objective of dismantling the gov't w/ the exception of the military industrial machine & police forces to guard thier toys (wealth)

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

davidmc

I'd rather "reign" in hell than "serve" in heaven

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I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Bikerman2004

Careful what you wish for.

DiabloScott

Simplified? Your analysis isn't worthy of a preschooler. If you truly felt like that then you'd also have to be a Muslim because if the Koran's right you're sure to go to hell if you don't follow Islam, so better start worshipping Allah and praying to Mecca, just in case.

Actually you'd better start worshipping ME because I might be the true messiah - it could be, so you'd better cover all your bases, right?

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jhuskey

I can answer the court room question. The phrasing is "raise your right hand and do you swear to tell the truth". That's pretty much it.
Then a couple of attorneys , a plantiff, a defendant and some witnesses lie their ass off to get their way.
I'm sorry, I mean they give their perspectives that are 180 degrees in opposition to each other.

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Sobriety is over rated!

FELTF10

I know this forum is your bloody soapbox, but I prefer to be open-minded about anyone's personal and/or spiritual beliefs. Open mindedness is how we learn and progress throughout life. Attacking anyone's spiritual beliefs as some have in this thread exhibits more of a racist attitude than that of progressive individuals of the human race. If it brings peace or happiness to someone to believe in something, I'm happy for them; and if they want to share it with me that's fine, no condemnation from me as long as there's no condemnation for my opinion. Personally I believe in God, a Supreme Being, for it's inconcievable to believe any mere mortal could have perceived a mechanical two-wheeled, human powered device without a Supreme Being planting a seed to do so and giving them the intellect to devise such an amazing machine. I also believe in Satan, for it's inconcievable to believe any mere mortal could have perceived an engine driven gas guzzling, four-wheeled vehicle that destroys our planets atmosphere and our health by polluting our life's breath without a low life peice of crap supreme wannabe who wishes nothing more than pain, torment, and suffering for all mankind to also plant the seed to do so in the mind of a weak-willed individual to create such a devastating device from hell.

AAAAAMENNNNNN!

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RIDE FAST, RIDE HARD, JUST RIDE!

Beastt

Since the topic is, "Things that piss me off about some Christians", I'd like to contribute along those lines.

I recently came upon a forum wherein a few Christians were suggesting that other Christians should, more or less, boycott the LiveStrong wristbands because they heard that Lance Armstrong is an atheist. Fortunately, several of them disagreed and recognized that a charity program shouldn't be descriminated against on any religious basis as long as the funds aren't utilized to promote any particular religion. But some won't drop it and have taken to claiming that Lance left the wife who stuck with him through cancer, (blatantly incorrect), that he left a pregnant wife to take up with another woman, (his twin daughters were born in November 2001, his divorce in December 2003), and that he left his wife to chase after Sheryl Crow, (which may or may not be true but has nothing to do with the charity provided by the Lance Armstrong Foundation).

In addition a small few have claimed that the Lance Armstrong Foundation has been investigated for inappropriate expenditures of donations, though they seem not to be able to find any source to back up the claim. All they will say is that there was an expose' on CBS and that there used to be an article on cbs.com which isn't there anymore. If anyone is familiar with this, perhaps they can post where this information can be found.

The actual comments can be seen at; http://www.christianforums.com/t157...-armstrong.html

DiabloScott

Beast - time to update your avatar!

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Carrera

"ON THE OTHER HAND, if the Atheist is wrong and the Christian is right, the Atheist has really mucked up his or her life because the Christian will be in heaven and the Atheist will be in hell and given a choice most people choose the former."
The whole idea of hell predates Christianity. The given cause for being sent to hell is not believing in the testimony of resurrection - an event that is dated over 2000 years ago.
So, there is no logical analysis of witness or testimony or reason involved. Either you accept what the witnesses have witnessed or you defer.
But this choice denies all human intelligence or abilty to think and rationalise.
My question: How come the apostles differ in accounts of crucifixion and resurrection? Would their combined testimony stand up in court? One witness recalls 2 thieves at the side of Jesus while other witnesses recount a different story.

wilmar13

Did anyone watch South Park the movie? You know where Kenny dies and goes to hell. All the good Christians of various denominations and various other religions happen to be in Hell as well, and the welcoming announcer says to the disgruntled crowd "uhhh sorry you all guessed wrong, Mormonism was the correct choice"...

Fact is the whole gun to your head type of motivation for anything is totally artificial anyway. How can a threat make you believe in anything any more than a terrorist holding a knife to your throat while you speak into the camera saying whatever you are told to? Anyone that goes to church to avoid going to hell is a total fake. Unfortunately this seems to be the majority in my experience and some of the most fake people you will ever meet are very "religious". If there is a Hell and I end up there for using the intellect that God gave me then I will have made the right choice as I would never choose to worship a sadistic bastard that gave you tools and then punished you for using them anyway. Do the right thing and live a virtuous life because it is the right thing to do for yourself and your fellow man, not because you want to avoid going to Hell...

jhuskey

Since the subject of Hell has been brought forth I will make comments. Hell was a very drab and unispired place until Dante painted a us a detailed portrait of it.
In that spirit I tend to believe that we make our own Hell and decide if that is where we wish to reside.
You don't need die to be there but it probably helps.

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Sobriety is over rated!

Carrera

So far as I'm aware, Christianity dictates you must believe Jesus was the son of God and be baptised to be saved from hell and torment. The catholics believe Mary must also mediate between believers and God.
The key question is what will happen when I die and whether myself and Bush will go upstairs or downstairs respectively. I mean, I'd be surprised to see myself being cast down to the infernal regions as an unbeliever, while Bush goes on to greet St Peter at heaven's gate, shake hands with Ronald Regan and enter paradise.
The difference would be this: Bush chose to believe a testimony that took place 2000 years ago with respect to a crucifixion that took place under Pontius Pilate. I choose not to believe all the details of the said testimony on the grounds I wasn't present and that the witnesses weren't known to me.
So, now I have this vision of bumping into the likes of Madonna, Tom Cruise and Michael Jackson. Will Madonna go upstairs as kabalah was the correct choice to make or will it be scientologist Tom Cruise who enters paradise. But if the Jehovas Witnesses are right, they'll be joining Michael Jackson while the rest of us are kicked down below.