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20-04.-2005, 11:41 AM
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#48 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,557
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
Yeah, but people in the general population develop cancer, HBP, Depression, etc., Pantani died of a coke overdose, that has nothing to do with doping in this context. I don't know anything about Zanette. I don't think you will find many people that say Pro Cyclists aren't trying to gain an advantage in any way possible, but to say it is killing them and they are gladiators... well I guess it will take ten years to find out. |
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20-04.-2005, 12:16 PM
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#49 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 712
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
We can pick this apart till the end of time here, but we were not at the hearing and we did not hear all of the evidence. Three individuals charged with hearing the evidence and rendering a decision did, and they could not agree on his guilt or innocence. And what if next time this test finds someone guilty and the decision is 2 to 1 in favor of the cyclist, what then.
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20-04.-2005, 09:35 PM
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#52 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,557
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
If I ever wrote anything where I came across as a self-professed doping aficionado, I was in error. I am a guy that likes to ride and race bicycles at a terminal Cat 3 level. I also like to casually follow professional road racing. That is it, don't let my complaining about the many thread hijacks and troll-like posts confuse the issue. BTW, this is a good thread to get it all out of your system, as it is both applicable to road racing, and the topic of the thread. If you keep your opinions in threads like this all is good. |
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20-04.-2005, 10:12 PM
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#53 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
Very well said Flyer. I have to agree. I was reading through this thread with replies from folks condemning Hamilton as a convicted cheater while evidently still believing their favorite rider or riders to be clean (I won't name any names). I couldn't help but think how naive they are. As far as Hamilton, who a lot of folks once believed to be a great guy and whom these same folks are now condemning as a cheating scoundrel; all I can say is these people should realize that TH simply fell victim to the temptaion that every top professional cyclist must face. Do "what it takes" to succeed or go home. Let's not confuse dope cheats with real criminals. If you think Tyler is an anomaly in the pro cycling peloton, you really do need to wake-up. The difference is that Tyler didn't play the game as well as some of his competitors and he got caught. |
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20-04.-2005, 10:18 PM
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#54 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
Ummm, yeah. Sounds like an "urban legend" to me. Can you site your source for that bit of information? |
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20-04.-2005, 10:55 PM
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#55 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 71
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
As one of the few people who's used that phrase in this thread I can only assume the comment is directed at me? If you think I'm drifting around in some self deluded haze whereby I think Hamilton is some outrageous criminal cheating a predominantly clean competing peleton I think you're grossly mistaken. |
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20-04.-2005, 11:38 PM
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#56 |
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Community Team
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: at the bar
Posts: 12,487
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
I think some perspective needs to be introduced here.
TH did cheat and was found to have cheated. In absolute terms, what does the TH case tell us ? It tells us that he did cheat. It doesn't tell us why he cheated nor does it address the reason as to why TH decided to cheat. These issues are the ones which I think, Flyer is attempting to address. While it is right to condemn TH for the act of cheating, I think that to condemn him and his character for ever more, in a human context, is ridiculous and unfair. Finally, it is worth re-iterating that all of the platitudes, all of the fervour to smash drugs/doping, in the aftermath of Festina (1998), Pantani's death (2003) and all instances in between, have failed. |
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20-04.-2005, 11:42 PM
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#57 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
When I said "I won't name names" I was actually referring to names of cyclists that people are presuming to be clean not names of forum members. I didn't mean to point to any particular post or poster.That said it certainly seems as though some folks here believe their heros to be clean while the few pros that actually happen to get busted are scoundrel dope cheats. Which is absolutely ridiculous. |
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20-04.-2005, 11:48 PM
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#58 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 71
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
that's alright then - don't want to get the wrong reputation
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20-04.-2005, 11:53 PM
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#59 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Minneapolis, Minnesota
Posts: 1,848
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
I agee with you that it's not right to condemn TH and his character in a "human" context. That's what I was getting at. But I have a tough time really condemning a cyclist for "cheating" in a sport where pretty much every top competitor is quite likely doing the same thing. I know it might sound silly. But is a cheat among cheats really a cheater? The whole sport is corrupt and in my opinion pointing to the few riders who happen to get caught and saying "Oh! Cheater! Doper! You're a cheater!" is absolutly absurd! Until the sport is cleaned-up, these riders are just the unfortunate few who happen to get caught. I'm not saying we should look the other way and do nothing. I'm not sure what can be done. But to condemn the ones who happen to get caught as cheaters is like going into a maximum security prison and pointing to an individual inmate and saying "Oh! You're a bad person! You're a criminal"!  |
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21-04.-2005, 12:07 AM
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#60 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2003
Posts: 71
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Re: Tyler Innocent?
Quote:
Indeed they have failed - and judging by many of the views expressed on this forum is that any surprise? Even with a guilty verdict handed down it seems there are a stack of people out there who don't want to accept it. Quick to doubt any medical test but happy to back a rider based on nothing more than faith (despite the many historical cases that prove riders claims of innocence to be nothing but lies). This level of denial is quite an obsticle. This is what i find so frustrating about the whole doping issue - it clearly damages the sport on a fundamental level but there seems to be limited appetite to geniunely tackle the problem - on many many levels - from governing bodies, teams, riders to armchair supporters. The problem is I'm not one of those who can simply say 'that's just the way it is' and carry like it's all okay. Ho hum what can you do? |
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