pealling push up push down

n crowley

But the group who did least training with PC's had best results. "Suffering through it", I am not surprised, after Frank's last statement on that other forum what else could you expect. All that unnecessary lifting etc. from 10 o'c to TDC with little or no benefit to the torque of the other leg and with the rising leg's muscles in lifting mode the thigh will be in a higher position as pedal passes through TDC, creating more resistance between stomach and thigh when riding in the aero racing drops position. With the mashing technique, inertia or momentum unconsciously takes care of this area and with lifting muscles in relaxed mode the thigh will be in a lower position through TDC, as the main power muscles are already preparing for an earlier (than the PC circular style) start to the all important downstroke. While with Anquetil's linear style, from 11 to TDC maximal tangential torque is already being applied to the crank as part of an extended 180 deg. main power stroke. How did you pedal before PC's, circular, mashing or no particular style ?

Fday

First, we don't actually have the study, all we have is an abstract. Second, what we do have is so awful and there are so many other problems with it that it is probably worthless.

n crowley

If a handcranker changed to a set of PC type hand cranks, would he increase power output ?

Fday

Probably not, although some people think there might be an improvement. If there is it should be small. The reason I don't think there would be much benefit is we push and pull pretty well with our upper extremities. The upper extremities do not have an imbalance between the antigravity muscles and the other muscles because there are no antigravity muscles in the upper extremities.

swampy1970

I thought I pedaled pretty much in circles.... "thought" being the operative word. Speaking of circles, I believe you've asked me this very question about a dozen times in this thread...

Your description of pedalling sounds like you should be knocking out 45 minute 25's every once in a while. Who says that the "PC Style" has to be perfectly circular? While I do push across the top, I tend to use my thigh as a lever, raising it high enough to just get away with mashing should I so desire. While it's hard to do whilst on the drops, it just something you just gotta 'sack up' and deal with.

n crowley

The perfect circular hand crank rider can apply almost continuous max tangential torque to his cranks through the entire circle but if he used only one crank with the other arm in a fixed position for resistance purposes only, he could almost double the power output from that one working hand crank. This demonstrates that circular or PC pedalling is lacking in resistance. This is further demonstrated by the linear (Anquetil) technique which can avail of that same fixed arm resistance to increase leg crank power output. Once started the handcranker cannot tell whether or not he is using PC's, so if there is no difference in power application, how can they increase power output in either hand or leg crank pedalling.

swampy1970

How do you know that Anquetil had a 'linear' pedalling style? Because someone said so?

n crowley

I discovered the technique without ever having seen Anquetil in pedalling action and knew that it had many advantages especially where the lower back is concerned due to the combination of upper and lower body muscles in generating the pedal power. Some years later when Anquetil's video became available, I knew instantly from the pedalling footage that he was using the identical linear technique when he was at max power output, during the hour record attempt and nearing the end of that important time trial when he was under pressure from Poulidor.

swampy1970

Please demonstrate this wonderous pedaling style. Enlighten us...

dkrenik

There's an 8 part series on You Tube here

I dunno. It sure looks like his feet go round and round in circles to me...

Dave

n crowley

Being attached to the pedals they have to, but unlike the 'Fosbury Flop', it's in what the invisible muscles are doing that the all important undetectable secret lies.

dkrenik

Undetectable secret? If I can't measure it's effectiveness, I don't care about it.

Dave

Fday

If the secret is undetectable, how do you know that Anquetil is doing what you think he is doing?

n crowley

That's correct undetectable which means it cannot be copied. There is only one way that maximal power can be applied to the cranks as they pass through 12 o'c when in a seated TT position. Anquetil knew it, I know it, once you discover it you can tell if someone else is using it. While the lower body muscle action of this technique is concealed, the upper body action is visible. Proof of this can be found in that Anquetil video when his manager Geminiani demonstrates the pulling and pushing action of the arms used by Anquetil in the last stage of that famous Double. If he had used "Scott Rake" bars, his power output would have been even greater.