pealling push up push down

Originally Posted by Fday

The 40% improvement probably is a summation of many small improvements that are occuring throughout the pedal stroke. No one has studied this question yet to answer where this is occurring. I am only confident in stating that, on average, it does.

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

i'm sorry, you're wrong. If your typical cyclist weighing 68 - 70 kg, suddenly (~9 months) improves from 300 to 420 W for a TT, he'd be very capable of being up there in the TdF. Such an increase in power is huge, and anyone that truly increased that amount from a "typical" cyclist standing of ~ 300 W to 420 W would stick out like a sore thumb.

Ric

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo

Among users of your cranks, is there a correlation between rate of improvement and FT at the outset? Specifically, if you limit the users to those who had FTs ~300w when they began using your cranks, have they averaged a 40% improvement? BTW, if your users have experienced an average of 40%, some of them must have experienced really huge improvements (e.g., 60-80%) to offset those who realize only 10-20% improvement.

Originally Posted by Fday

Not sure what FT means

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo

FT is functional threshold, one's maximum sustainable constant power (or NP) for ~1 hour or 40K TT (usually close enough to 1 hr that the two durations are basically equivalent). I would anticipate that % improvement would be a decreasing function of initial FT.

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

i think that's what Frank has suggested (that % improvement decreases as a function of absolute fitness). Nonetheless, Franks is suggesting that a 2rd or 3rd category quality rider could improve 40%, which would be sufficient in 6 to 9 months to place in the first few of the world senior TT championships...

Ric

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo

That's how I read it too. And I find that assertion to be hard to believe. I have no idea what my pedaling inefficiencies are at this point, but if I thought I could increase my FT by 40% in 9 months I'd make my reservations now for the masters world championships (if there is such an event) for 2007.

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

There is a Masters Worlds, usually in Austria in August. A big US contingent goes. Nonetheless, at 40% you wouldn't need to worry about the old guys, you could turn up for the elite senior race (i.e., the Div 1 pros) and be a force to be reckoned with.

Ric

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo

So, why do I have this nagging doubt about my ability to increase my FT by 40% with these cranks?

Originally Posted by ric_stern/RST

Because it's sooooooooooooo unlikely, that it's laughable.


even rH-Epo gives < 10% increase in power...and there's unlikely to be anything that gives a significantly greater increase in power...

ric

Originally Posted by Fday

Not sure what FT means but, in general, we expect the better the cyclist now, the less improvement they can expect. I have only had one customer who I thought would not see any improvement from use of PC's and he was an ultracyclist who rode exclusivly on a fixie, including races. He rode the PC's from Seattle to Portland on day three with little problem. After a month he sent them back for his refund saying he didn't see any benefit and I would agree with him, he didn't need them. And, yes, many users report substantially more improvement than 40%. Joe Skufka, an experienced triathlete, reported improving from 20 to 25 mph on a 12 mile loop he does once a month to assess fitness in 6 months. This is almost a 100% improvement (a doubling) in power in 6 months. Over 2 years he improved to 27 mph getting him to 146% improvement and over three years he improved again to 28 mph, which would be a 175% improvement over 3 years.

So, our testing data suggests that most ordinary people can expect a 40% improvement reports from users substantiate that claim even though some see less, others see much more.

Originally Posted by Fday

I agree.



I think it would depend upon their pedaling style and inefficiencies now. Those who are more inefficient will have more potential to gain. Inefficiencies can be measured but most don't know what their real inefficiencies are so they will not know what the potential is until they get on them. Those who get on and are riding for 2 hours in the aero postition within a week will see smaller gains than those who get on and their first ride ends in 20 minutes. That much variation exists in the Div 1 pros. So, I would say power increase potential could be as low as 5-10% in the first group and around 20% in the second. Another thing, is these individuals are unlikely to see these improvements in just 6-9 months because of the type of racing they do and few of them are using the PC's exclusively, which is what such improvements take.




Doing well in a 40K TT and being capable of riding at the highest level at the TDF are completely different things and you know it. Many users have jumped from amateur to pro or improved substantially as pros. Names that come immediately to mind are Jurgen Van deWalle, and Todd Herriot who went from being an amateur to winning the Univega Grand Prix and Tour of Cuba then achieved his dream and became a first time Pro when over 30 years old (Health Net, still riding for Colavita). Brian Sheedy is another who has done pretty well since getting on them. Many pro triathletes (many more of whom use them exclusively in training) have taken 30 minutes off their IM bike splits which calculates to about 40% power improvement.

You may think such improvements are impossible. Well, they most certainly are if you do not try.

Originally Posted by RapDaddyo

FT is functional threshold, one's maximum sustainable constant power (or NP) for ~1 hour or 40K TT (usually close enough to 1 hr that the two durations are basically equivalent). I would anticipate that % improvement would be a decreasing function of initial FT.