Climbing is hard

Alan Braggins

Mike Causer wrote:
>On Thu, 09 Dec 2004 17:11:48 +0000, Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> I'm about the same age and height, and a bit heavier than Dave. Clearly
>> someone ought to give me a recumbent....
>
>Come on! D-Tek are visible across the fields on a clear day and you have
>too many tin-cans in the yard already. Sell one and give the money to
>Kevin ;-))

I have tried persuading my wife that we don't really need two cars. (Having
one out of action confirmed this, but also confirmed that it can be a pain in
the neck. Having a nasty cold recently hasn't being encouraging either, though
I probably could cycle to Newmarket station if I was well enough to go to
work but not up to cycling the whole way.)

Neither of the cars would sell for enough to pay for e.g. a new ICE
(especially if I can't work out why the Ka now whines in fifth), though the
savings on tax/insurance/servicing would within a few years, and I don't
think my mother-in-law would be happy if we sold her car (nor would the lodger
be if we sold his) (I think there were some guests' cars there as well when
you saw them, adding to the "too many tin-cans" impression).

I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of bike bits.
Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I haven't been to Kevin
for the "try out assorted recumbents" session yet though, that plan got rather
disrupted by the car dying.) I need to learn how to drive the GIMP too (and/or
a suitable CAD program). And probably to decide that I really do need to trust
my welding for at least some structural stuff rather than trying to avoid it.


>In Alan's defence (although I know very well that he can conduct his own)
>he *does* have more bicycles than cars. Even if they are somewhat
>difficult for a much shorter (and lighter) rider to handle while Alan
>is off on my 'bent.

The folder (which I didn't have at that time) would suit a much shorter and
lighter rider if I took the extra-long seatpost off. (Consists of the original
seatpost, plus half a seatpost and a length of seattube off another bike.)

Mike Causer

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:20:02 +0000, Alan Braggins wrote:


> I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of bike
> bits. Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I haven't been
> to Kevin for the "try out assorted recumbents" session yet though, that
> plan got rather disrupted by the car dying.) I need to learn how to drive
> the GIMP too (and/or a suitable CAD program). And probably to decide that
> I really do need to trust my welding for at least some structural stuff
> rather than trying to avoid it.

Get a copy of this: http://www.bhpc.org.uk/booklet.html


For free CAD you could try Qcad http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html which
is OK for 2D work. Or, if you can find a working Sun 3 I've got Medusa 6
on tape...

Rather than MIG welding for hand-made thin-section bike stuff it's normal
to braze. Bottisham Village College used to do welding & brazing
evening classes, but as their website is fubared atm I can't tell if they
still do.


Mike

Alan Braggins

Mike Causer wrote:
>On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:20:02 +0000, Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>
>> I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of bike
>> bits. Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I haven't been
>> to Kevin for the "try out assorted recumbents" session yet though, that
>> plan got rather disrupted by the car dying.) I need to learn how to drive
>> the GIMP too (and/or a suitable CAD program). And probably to decide that
>> I really do need to trust my welding for at least some structural stuff
>> rather than trying to avoid it.
>
>Get a copy of this: http://www.bhpc.org.uk/booklet.html

I think it still said "new edition coming soon" last time I looked.
Definitely looks worthwhile.


>For free CAD you could try Qcad http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html which
>is OK for 2D work.

http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad_downloads.html says demo version times out
after 10 minutes, buy a licence for production use.
http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm#2D3DCADSystems has a selection of other
possibilities.

But "take side view photos, scale to match, cut and paste bits" will
probably do for rough 2D design.


> Or, if you can find a working Sun 3 I've got Medusa 6
>on tape...

I've got an Amiga, which is at least 680x0 based. There was a very basic
(simple command line stuff only) Amiga emulator that ran on the Sun, but
the other way around could be trickier though, and I'm not sure if it's
working anyway. I am certain I don't have a tape drive.
But I think JohnM might have the appropriate kit.

(And somewhere I have Imagine for the Amiga, I ought to try transferring
it onto UAE. Assuming I can read the Amiga floppies.)


>Rather than MIG welding for hand-made thin-section bike stuff it's normal
>to braze.

Yes, but I already have the MIG welder and a bit of experience with it,
and the pile of scrap frames are thick-section welded ones (thicker than,
say, the Alfetta body panels I got the MIG for).
There is an obvious downside to that, but it's not as if there are any
big hills locally anyway.

Mike Causer

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 18:30:34 +0000, Alan Braggins wrote:


>>Get a copy of this: http://www.bhpc.org.uk/booklet.html
>
> I think it still said "new edition coming soon" last time I looked.
> Definitely looks worthwhile.

Yup, new edition is out now (and I must get one too).



> http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad_downloads.html says demo version times out
> after 10 minutes, buy a licence for production use.

Ah yes, there's a slightly older version available as an rpm with no
restrictions, or if you have Qt build the current version from source.


> http://www.freebyte.com/cad/cad.htm#2D3DCADSystems has a selection of
> other possibilities.

Mainly for MS-Windows, there's very little for Linux.


> I've got an Amiga, which is at least 680x0 based. There was a very basic
> (simple command line stuff only) Amiga emulator that ran on the Sun, but
> the other way around could be trickier though, and I'm not sure if it's
> working anyway. I am certain I don't have a tape drive. But I think
> JohnM might have the appropriate kit.

Only Sun 4s the last time I was in his server (bed)room.



> Yes, but I already have the MIG welder and a bit of experience with it,
> and the pile of scrap frames are thick-section welded ones (thicker
> than, say, the Alfetta body panels I got the MIG for).

Well watch out for distortion then....


Mike

Simon Brooke

in message
<pan.2004.12.13.17.14.32.502909@firstnamelastname.com.invalid>, Mike
Causer ('mikec@firstnamelastname.com.invalid') wrote:

> On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 13:20:02 +0000, Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>
>> I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of
>> bike bits. Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I
>> haven't been to Kevin for the "try out assorted recumbents" session
>> yet though, that plan got rather disrupted by the car dying.) I need
>> to learn how to drive the GIMP too (and/or a suitable CAD program).
>> And probably to decide that I really do need to trust my welding for
>> at least some structural stuff rather than trying to avoid it.
>
> Get a copy of this: http://www.bhpc.org.uk/booklet.html
>
> For free CAD you could try Qcad http://www.ribbonsoft.com/qcad.html
> which
> is OK for 2D work. Or, if you can find a working Sun 3 I've got
> Medusa 6 on tape...

I use AC3D, from here: <URL:http://www.ac3d.org/>. It's not true CAD,
since it doesn't really know about solids and doesn't have any real
dimensioning; but it is an excellent 3d modeller and visualiser. It's
shareware, but the license is inexpensive and in my opinion it's great
value for money. The author is also pretty good at responding to
questions and suggestions. It exports both to AutoCAD and to POVRay.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; Diplomacy, American: see Intelligence, Military

Jon Senior

Alan Braggins wrote:
>
> I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of bike bits.
> Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I haven't been to Kevin
> for the "try out assorted recumbents" session yet though, that plan got rather
> disrupted by the car dying.) I need to learn how to drive the GIMP too (and/or
> a suitable CAD program). And probably to decide that I really do need to trust
> my welding for at least some structural stuff rather than trying to avoid it.

Compare and contrast. You have already got some experience with welding,
are used to the welder you own and are using bike tubing.

I had no experience of welding, have access to an arc welder which is
easily twice my age and am now almost reaching a passable skill level
(Somewhere approaching almost competent!) as I reach the end of
producing my second frame.

I would strongly advise buying Atomic Zombies Bicycle Builders Bonanza
or at least looking at the site (www.atomiczombie.com). If for no other
reason than you'll realise that if he's still alive, it can't be that
difficult.

Jon

Alan Braggins

In article <1102983677.21591.0@lotis.uk.clara.net>, Jon Senior wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>>
>> I do however have an angle grinder, MIG welder, and a small pile of bike bits.
>> Watch this space, but without holding your breath. (I haven't been to Kevin
>> for the "try out assorted recumbents" session yet though, that plan got rather
>> disrupted by the car dying.) I need to learn how to drive the GIMP too (and/or
>> a suitable CAD program). And probably to decide that I really do need to trust
>> my welding for at least some structural stuff rather than trying to avoid it.
>
>Compare and contrast. You have already got some experience with welding,
>are used to the welder you own and are using bike tubing.
>
>I had no experience of welding, have access to an arc welder which is
>easily twice my age and am now almost reaching a passable skill level
>(Somewhere approaching almost competent!) as I reach the end of
>producing my second frame.

The assumption of a second frame is one reason for not worrying too much
about the weight of the thick tubed welded frames....
As it happens I do have an arc welder too, but I've never used it (it was
my father-in-law's), and when I did do arc welding it was on _much_ thicker
stuff.


>I would strongly advise buying Atomic Zombies Bicycle Builders Bonanza

That was my birthday present to myself. I'm thinking of something a bit
like the Kool Kat, but based on a 26" wheel frame (with a 20" fork).
I'm undecided between a 20" rear wheel, a 26" rear wheel with a very
steep head angle and hardly any trail, and cutting and bending the frame
to have a 26" rear wheel, 20" front wheel, and the headtube back at the
angle it first thought of.
(Or using a lighterweight fork that I could bend to change the trail, but
that's for a 451mm wheel I don't have, and would need either a lot of
threading or welding a different headtube in place (but does have a much
longer stem which might work for OSS without welding an extension onto it).)


>or at least looking at the site (www.atomiczombie.com). If for no other
>reason than you'll realise that if he's still alive, it can't be that
>difficult.

Hmm. You're not getting me on one of those tallbikes just because I've
seen photos of someone else doing it....
I'm not convinced by something as low as the Marauder for commuting or
town use either.

Jon Senior

Alan Braggins wrote:
> The assumption of a second frame is one reason for not worrying too much
> about the weight of the thick tubed welded frames....

You claim the first one was a prototype and treat the excess weight as a
good training exercise.

> As it happens I do have an arc welder too, but I've never used it (it was
> my father-in-law's), and when I did do arc welding it was on _much_ thicker
> stuff.

I've been playing with ours a lot recently and have finally managed to
get the hang (Sort of) of welding thinner tubes. I did however punch
neatly through the front derailleur mount tube by leaving the current at
70A and then attempting to weld a < 1mm walled tube to 1.2mm wall one. I
then got to spend about 4 hours this evening, laying up material around
the tube until I could successfully weld it. Grr.

> That was my birthday present to myself. I'm thinking of something a bit
> like the Kool Kat, but based on a 26" wheel frame (with a 20" fork).
> I'm undecided between a 20" rear wheel, a 26" rear wheel with a very
> steep head angle and hardly any trail, and cutting and bending the frame
> to have a 26" rear wheel, 20" front wheel, and the headtube back at the
> angle it first thought of.
> (Or using a lighterweight fork that I could bend to change the trail, but
> that's for a 451mm wheel I don't have, and would need either a lot of
> threading or welding a different headtube in place (but does have a much
> longer stem which might work for OSS without welding an extension onto it).)

My first plan for after Christmas is to make a Spincycle for the Bike
Station. I can see us getting grief from the management though, as the
station car park is probably not the best place for it, but is the only
large open area available.

> Hmm. You're not getting me on one of those tallbikes just because I've
> seen photos of someone else doing it....

Coward. I'd love to make one and then commute to work on it, but given
the hill I have to travel I can see a disaster in the making. Too high
for a Martlehat to be any use! ;-)

> I'm not convinced by something as low as the Marauder for commuting or
> town use either.

I'd stick a flag on it. TBH, the fact that you are so strikingly
different means you'd only have problems if you tried to jump places in
stationary traffic.

Jon

David Martin

On 15/12/04 12:02 am, in article 1103068883.18591.0@ersa.uk.clara.net, "Jon
Senior" <jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> wrote:

>
> My first plan for after Christmas is to make a Spincycle for the Bike
> Station. I can see us getting grief from the management though, as the
> station car park is probably not the best place for it, but is the only
> large open area available.

You and me both..

I have most of the necessary bits in the garage, just need to find some
time.

I'd like to find a smaller wheel than 26" though.

...d

Simon Brooke

in message <1103068883.18591.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>, Jon Senior
<jon_AT_restlesslemon_DOT_co_DOT_uk> ('') wrote:

>> Hmm. You're not getting me on one of those tallbikes just because
>> I've seen photos of someone else doing it....
>
> Coward. I'd love to make one and then commute to work on it, but given
> the hill I have to travel I can see a disaster in the making. Too high
> for a Martlehat to be any use! ;-)

You notice that the place where Atomic Zombie lives is extremely flat. I
suspect that this makes the skycycle rather easier to deal with; I've
certainly no plans to try riding one around here.

--
simon@jasmine.org.uk (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Morning had broken, and I found when I looked that we had run out
of copper roove nails.

dkahn400

Jon Senior wrote:
> Alan Braggins wrote:

> > Hmm. You're not getting me on one of those tallbikes just because
> > I've seen photos of someone else doing it....
>
> Coward. I'd love to make one and then commute to work on it, but
> given the hill I have to travel I can see a disaster in the making.
> Too high for a Martlehat to be any use! ;-)

ISTR Chalo Colina admitting in rec.bicycles.tech that he had carved a
large groove in his scalp by riding his tallbike under an awning. A
PFDB might have helped in that case.

--
Dave...

Dave Larrington

dkahn400 wrote:

> ISTR Chalo Colina admitting in rec.bicycles.tech that he had carved a
> large groove in his scalp by riding his tallbike under an awning. A
> PFDB might have helped in that case.

One Bob Johnson competed in the BHPC race at Milton Keynes on a tallbike in
2001, and reported that the martlehat was very useful when carving through
overhanging trees...

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
World Domination?
Just find a world that's into that kind of thing, then chain to the
floor and walk up and down on it in high heels. (Mr. Sunshine)

dkahn400

Simon Brooke wrote:
> You notice that the place where Atomic Zombie lives is extremely
> flat. I suspect that this makes the skycycle rather easier to deal
> with; I've certainly no plans to try riding one around here.

I'm sure you could find a flat bit to practice on before tackling the
Dalbeattie Slab.

--
Dave...

Alan Braggins

In article <1103068883.18591.0@ersa.uk.clara.net>, Jon Senior wrote:
>Alan Braggins wrote:
>
>> I'm not convinced by something as low as the Marauder for commuting or
>> town use either.
>
>I'd stick a flag on it. TBH, the fact that you are so strikingly
>different means you'd only have problems if you tried to jump places in
>stationary traffic.

I have a car for use when I'm happy to sit stationary in traffic as
normal bikes pass it....