Turkey and the EU

davidmc

Do we know why the people are emigrating out of Turkey? I personally like Turkey, given it's a state based on a secular gov't although i can't say how that's working in practice. We, in the states have a good amt. of immigrant labor on our southern border states (agricultural); most significantly, & to a lesser extent in other area's (construction, textiles). We're "overrun", one might say w/ millions of immigrants, many undocumented. I have compassion as long as the taxes they pay, keep up w/ the soc. services they may utilize. Our armed forces are bolstered by 2nd gen. immigrants so they contribute to society in a variety of way's. As long as the undocumented one's don't negatively effect the indigenous people's.

Le Fougere

Sorry... gotta call you out on this one... While it is true that population is decreasing in some european countries, notably Italy, in others, it is remaining stable. The Swedish government is doing a great deal to increase their birth rate which will allow it to stablilize. Here in France it is fairly stable, especially when you take into account the influx of people from the new 10 member states. That is the whole idea of free movement of labor within the EU. Additionally, there are many immigrants from non-EU countries coming in currently, without Turkey being a member.... Thus, the EU can continue to have immigrants, thereby keeping population steady, without adding the quagmire of admitting Turkey.

I'm with Juliper on this one... They simply aren't ready to be admitted. For me, here's the true test, could a woman go from France to Turkey to do her Erasmus (look it up Fred...) without feeling threatened?

My wife has a Kurdish friend who tells us that the recent reforms towards the Kurds have been nothing but media hype. And, the issue that NO ONE has touched on yet is the Armenians! Apparently at the beginning of this year, the government was trying to talk about an Armenian genocide of Turks!!!!

By the way, it's Gast-Arbeiter, a noun, not Gast-Arbeiten. Ich habe auch in Deutschland gewohnt... Und etwas anders... wenn du nicht hoefflich sein kannst, vielleicht du sollst einfach die klapper halten!

Bottom line, I think the Union has expanded too quickly already. And there are still three more countries to join in the next 5 years, Croatia, Romania, and Bulgaria. We aren't ready!

Il y a du monde dans ma maison maintenant...mais je vais revenir!

davidmc

Very well stated. The number's, addition of people free to move throughout the union, would be astronomical, not to mention the inherent cultural divide due to religion/language. Also, you're concise, erudite translations; of other languages, are admirable. I can barely (working on it ) speak Spanish. Lastly, it would appear that the birth rate of a country is inversely proportional to a countries developement- more developement/lower birth rate. That's how it is here in America

FredC

For the life of me I cannot understand how 70 million Turks who live in Asia, not Europe, can be accomodated in the EU. At present the population of the EU is about 350 million. What bloody use is that sucking the financial life out of Europe. The next thing you know Israel will be putting their name down, and Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan etc. Let them start their own confederation, or wind up the old arab league clock.
Anyway I won't be alive if it ever happens.

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The media is a self perpetuating publicity stunt.

limerickman

I agree with your central point.
I am not sure that Turkey's human rights record can be over looked as regards their entry to Europe.
I am all for countries joining the EU - to maximise security in Europe.
However Turkeys human rights record in respect of the Kurds is appalling.

FredC

Don't give me that shit, What about Americas human rights record over the last few years. Guantanamo Bay, prisoners of war? No trial, no evidence after all these years. Incarceration without prosecution. Come off it.

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The media is a self perpetuating publicity stunt.

limerickman

I have condemned the US policy throughout.
I oppose the treatment of people illegally detained in quantanemo.
I oppose the illegal invasion of Iraq too.

But the question was posed about Turkey in this thread.

FredC

Fair comment Lim, for years Merkia had military bases, particularly air force ones in Turkey to encircle the state of Russia during the cold war, I don't remember much about human rights though. Hey who gives a shit, we live on a base. We don't meddle in local issues. Russia is the Evil Empire, and we'se protectin' youse. I think I still hear that phrase. The Presidents might change, but the rhetoric doesn't.

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The media is a self perpetuating publicity stunt.

limerickman

I remember those times "Turkey is a strategic country" - was the Merkin cry.
They used the same waffle for Yugoslavia.

It was all about having countries "on our side" within the sphere of the dreaded USSR, wasn't it ?

Turkey - didn't the Yanks try to use Turkey's proximity to the USSR as a base for missiles to try to counteract the Cuban proximity to the USA for missiles ?
I think they did.