Turkey and the EU

fixit

I'm not living in the EU but I think it would be a good thing.

I believe that Turkey will be able to join the EU sooner or later.

Do you think that's a good idea? Why, why not?

MountainPro

its a good idea i think, it will help loosen Euro-Muslim tensions. At least we will have an ally with some kind of influence in the middle east.

limerickman

Yikes - Turkey !

No disrespect intended to either Mountainpro or Fixit - but do we really need Turkey in the EU ?
Human rights in Turkey are pretty scarce.

I acknowledge that perhaps it might be a good way of easing tensions between Europe and the Arab world but they've got to clean up their human rights record, I think.

davidmc

Turkey is one of the few, true secular goverments in the world. My only issue is their reluctance/refusal to allow American military to invade Iraq from the north. Also, they have problems w/ Macedonia which hav'nt been resolved yet All due respect, Lim, But Saudi has a little bit more pressing prob's inre: human right's. What are Ireland's diplomatic relations w/ Saudi-if you know.

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

limerickman

On a scale Saudi is far worse but the Turkey ain't exactly a cakewalk.
Just ask the Kurds !
Turkey did allow the USA to invade Iraq from their country - Kirkuk in Northern
Iraq/Kurdistan has substantial oil reserves.

Ireland has diplomatic relations with Saudi - very much so in fact.
Believe it or not - horse racing makes these binds even closer.
Huge investments here in the Thoroughbreed industry by the Saudi's.

davidmc

I think you might be incorrect about Turkey allowing the U.S. to insert forces via Turkey into Iraq. Also, Turkey was even amassing troops along the border, contravening American wishes for them to "stand down" because of their dislike(?) of the kurd's & their oil fields for reason's unbeknownst to me. Race horses are a boon to Kentucky(U.S.) also but, it makes me sick to think of their "openly", atrocious human right's record

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

limerickman

Yep - Saudi is a rough spot.

My extended family have a company in the engineering field and they do quite a bit of work throughout the Middle East and they tell me that Saudi is pretty rough.
If you're caught with any Christian religious relics (Bibles, Crucifix etc) you can end up being thrown in prison without trial.
If you're caught having a drink (alcohol) you're snookered as well.

Their record is a abysmal.

davidmc

Turkey does have their own problem's (Macedonia, last I heard) to solve w/o the added burden of allowing 1000's of U.S. troops to use Turkey as their "way station"

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

Jupiler

No way! We just took in 10 new members, let's try to get them to our economic level first. We already have 25 members, which is hard enough to get along.

I just don't think it's a good idea to have a huge, (majorly) muslim, poor country with a dubious record of human rights and democracy in the EU. After all it's a EUROPEAN union, right?

Let them apply again in 50 years or so...

davidmc

They are secular, what more do you need

__________________
I'm completely in favor of the separation of Church and State. My idea is that these two institutions screw us up enough on their own, so both of them together is certain death.
George Carlin
US comedian and actor (1937 - )

fixit

The problem with Macedonia is between Greece and Macedonia.

This because Greece calls the part that has a border with Macedonia also Macedonia.

The Greeks are afraid that Macedonia will claim their part.

Turkey has nothing to do with Macedonia.

But Turkey and Greece really hate eachother. One keyword: Cyprus.

Jupiler

I didn`t mean to come on as anti-Turkey or anti-muslim. I just don`t think they`re ready... We could just as well take in Uzbekistan or whatever, they´re secular! Economically I don`t think it`s possible...that`s 80million people we`re talking about!

I know Bush wants them to join, reason enough for me to be sceptical

fixit

I agree with you that the ten new members will cause some major problems.

And yes, the human rights record of Turkey is indeed dubious. But the record of Greece is at least as dubious. And what about Spain, they had a fascist government until '78!!! Have you ever been to Spain when it's genaralisimo Francos birthday? Oh boy, I can tell you...

But Turkey is not exactly a poor country, not as poor as Portugal for example.

What classifies as Europe? Geographic oder cultural? Where would you draw the line?

For me the Baltic states don't classifie as european either, more scandinavian.

fixit

I can't tell you if you need them, do you need Greece? I mean they're the biggest cheaters when it comes to getting money from the EU. Greece is just as bad as Turkey, they just don't have kurds. I'm sure you read about the things they did before the olympics. What about that?