2004 Election : what now ?

jhuskey

The fact is that from your photo you appear to be about 15 years old says to me you haven't lived at all. Come back in 30 yaers or so and we will pick this conversation up again. I won't debate with children.

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Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

fixit

What now? Simple, wait and let the Yanks do what they always do. Then, when they get weaker (and they will), smoke 'em out of their Holes and wipe 'em off the Face of the Earth.

Keep it up Limerickman!

limerickman

Prefer not to see America get weaker - it will get weaker with a fundamentalist
like Bush in office.

It needs someone at the helm who knows what he/she is doing and that's not
happened since 2001, in the USA.
I think the citizens of the USA - as mjw has pointed out - perhaps cannot see
how corrosive this whole situation is.

Did you see Bush today ?
Platitudes and rhethoric again about the Middle East "It's top of my agenda..."
Yet he doesn't appear to comprehend that his policies inspire no confidence
outside of his 51% constituency in the USA.

A country needs statesmen - not fundamentalists.

Saucy

Europe "owes" America nothing.

The U.S. entered WWII for their own self interest.
The U.S. implemented the Marshall Plan for their own self-interest.
The U.S. has built up their military presence around the world for their own self-interest.

Foreign policy is not about doing favors. Its about self-interest pure and simple.

Americans have, and always will, serve their own self-interest. Nothing more, nothing less. Since Americans act in their own self-interest and profit from their global hegemony, there is no need for you to be grateful to them.

If you want to piggy back off of america's foreign policy, there is nothing wrong with that. You spend less on your military and you can use these funds for your health care etc. Basically the american taxpayer subsidizes your social services. Nothing to be guilty of. Seems pretty damn smart to me.


Sum total owed to the U.S.: $NIL

Ssushi

Hmmmm, mjw_byrne seems to have a better input to the debate than you, keep it up mjw_byrne

Ssushi

I concur; the only reason they joined WWII is due to Pearl Harbor and the sinking of some US merchant ships in the English Channel. Churchill had send an envoy to the US on many occasions in an attempt to get the US to assist. They didn't! We were pretty much fooked and they refused to help (some US individuals were actually helping pre 'US' involvement).

Just to clarify though: I'm not slagging the US servicemen at all - I have total respect for those involved. I am slagging US foriegn policy though, which at the time would have left us high and dry (speaking ze German if you like).

Also, just to clarify; if the US hadn't got involved - that wouldnt have been the end. The war would have gone underground, 'insurgency' to use the term of the times... You see you can't keep human beings down/in control with the use of force. You just can't. The Nazis couldnt do it to us, and the 'collation' can't do it in Iraq.

Saucy

There is no denying that the americans made a valuable contribution to the allies in both wars. My point is that nobody "owes" america for it. The U.S. profited greatly from both wars and became a superpower because of it. The Marshall Plan was not implemented out of sympathy; it was to keep the U.S. economy afloat.

The sentiment on these boards seems to be that France should have supported the U.S. in the war in Iraq, apparently because the U.S. helped out France 60 years ago?!? Give me a break....

Alliances are hatched out of mutual self-interest, not to "re-pay" someone for their assistance from 60 years back.

Chirac was bloody right about Iraq. And he was smart to stay away from the quagmire of the middle east. He is sitting pretty right now. There was an article in the New York Times today about how it was better for him that Bush won. Now he will have broader support in his vision for Europe to build up their military and to be a counter-power to the U.S. If Kerry had won, he would be in a difficult position as Kerry might have called on him for assitance. Now he is off the hook. Also, he has more support from the French population.

Chirac looks like a bloody genius right about now. Almost as much of a genius as Karl Rove.

Ssushi

Yer, it was great the way that Ford made Tanks in Europe using slave labour and then sold them to the Germans... thx soo much for that contribution...I take it all back, we DO owe the US...

MountainPro

Nice analogy, I like it.

limerickman

The media this morning (Britain and Ireland) are headlining the fact that three
Scottish soldiers of the Black Watch have been killed in Iraq, yesterday.

5 days ago, the Black Watch were redeployed from Southern Iraq to the Sunni
Triangle of Death to support the US cannon fodder, following a "request"
(shouldn't that be an order) from the USA.

Now Britain is starting to pay the blood price for the illegal invasion of Iraq.
Political heat is being turned up again on Tony Bliar.

mjw_byrne

I'm 23. The photo was taken when I was 20, a few weeks after I picked up a 1st class master's degree from a top university. I'm not an ignorant 15-year-old, as you seem to imagine.

Isn't it ironic that you originally decided to get on my case because you thought I was directing personal attacks at others?

jhuskey

I wasn't attempting input at a fruitless debate that will go nowhere. I was responding to his question about hostility in threads. I found it ironic that in the same post he throws insults.
I was merely trying to inform him that if you wish to have an un-emotional and rational discussion don't start by saying the Queen is a prostitute.
If you want to rant and rave piss and moan. Have at it ladies.
The fact that he made the statement that he knew more about a place than I do ,where I have lived for 52 years is, the most asinine statement I have seen here. I find I learn more about a nation by talking to its inhabitants rather that listening to their media.
Do not believe everything you read fellows.
If you believe that, then everyone in the UK has big ear, bad teeth and ,how the hell do you hold on to the drop bars after eating all that greasy fish and chips constantly.
Why did Blair send troops to Iraq? Less mortality rate than soccer games.
Carry on, no need to respond.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.
A closed mind is already wasted.
Have a wonderful day.

__________________
Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

jhuskey

At least you got my point, no irony, just wanted you to get you a little defensive to understand what I am trying to say.
I hope you now get what I was trying to accomplish. I attacked you to let you see what it feels like. Everyone has a button to be pushed.Some more than others. I have many, many European friends and hold no ill will.

Rational discussion don't start with insults but as I said carry on but please try to keep an open mind.

__________________
Whenever I can't get excited about riding I just fantasize about someone else's bike.

Bikerman2004

Ahhh yes the British are bailing out the Americans. They are being re-assigned to Baghdad. What Lim won't tell us is they are replacing Americans troops being sent to the Fallujah operation.