How many of you carry a gun as part of your cycling equipment?

Originally Posted by Synpax

There aren't any rapists in your country? None at all?

Or you must be a man.

I don't need to carry a gun when I ride/run. But I want my mom to.

The gun is the greatest creation in the history of mankind for the single reason is that in interpersonal conflict, it puts a woman on an equal field with a man.

Men will target women and other men not because they are strong but because they are weak. They see the weakness and use it against them.

A firearm eliminates that weakness. Even if the criminal also has a weapon, he is at best on even ground and inevitably, a well trained civilian will out shoot some ghetto thug gangster.

Originally Posted by Joe West

The point in carrying concealed while you ride is *simply* to provide yourself yet another option for defense if the situation warrants it.

Let me ask the anti-gun crowd this question:

You are riding along the road in a relatively quiet neighborhood when a car with 4 20'ish males passes you and yell some offensive comment as they go by. As they pass you, you see them stop ahead.

You turn around and start going back the way you came... they turn around, and this time when they pass you, they come to an abrupt stop so close to you that you can't turn around.

The youths hop out of the car and move towards you on your bike... as they come towards you, you hear them make comments about the "gay guy in spandex".

You see that one of the guys has a tire iron in his hand.

They are now blocking all paths away from them and you are hemmed in.

If you have nothing for defense... what do you do?

Here's what I do:

1. I pull out my pepper spray and immediately spray the guy with the tire iron. I get him and he backs off rubbing his eyes and screaming angrily.

2. This pisses off his buddies, and now my pepper spray can is empty because I used it on Mr. Tire Iron. I'm backing away quickly.

3. Pissed off buddies start to rush me.

4. As I'm backing away, I draw on closest buddy, yelling for them to STOP and TURN AROUND.

5a. They stop, apologizing profusely, and run back to their car. My problem is solved. I note their license plate (if I can) and call 911 to report the attack.

5b. They don't stop. I now shoot to stop the attack of the closest buddy. Once closest buddy is stopped, I turn to NEXT closest attacker.

Now dear anti-gun people. What are *your* options? If you don't carry pepper spray (which I'm betting many don't) here are your options:

1. Get the crap beat out of you by three bad guys.
2. When you recover, you purchase pepper spray for your next ride.

If you are one of the *Smart* riders who carry pepper spray, here are your options.

1. Spray the closest bad guy, disabling him.

2a. Armed with your empty spray can still aimed at the remaining bad guys... they back off

2b. Remaining three bad guys are now VERY pissed and they continue to rush you.

3. Get the crap beat out of you by three bad guys.

4. When you recover, if you are lucky enough not to live in a repressive gun hating (insert the following here: Country, State, City, etc), you go out and get trained to carry concealed.

I choose not to EVER allow myself (or my loved ones) to be in a position to get the crap beat out of me (or worse)... so I carry without *needing* to experience an ass-whipping or worse as motivation to carry. I carry because I want to avoid being a victim.

Notes:

Yes, the above scenario is HIGHLY unlikely... BUT it certainly IS within the realm of possibility.

Yes, there are an infinite number of variations on the above theme and I am FORCING you into a position where you must defend yourself to MAKE THE POINT that there ARE circumstances where it is NICE to have the additional option of being able to respond to increased levels of violence (or potential violence) against you or against a loved one.

Now... there are some of you who would say... okay... I'd accept my ass-whipping (in a passive anti-violence kind of way).

To this I'd respond:

Okay... change the scenario and now you are riding your bike with your wife and the bad guys are raping your wife IN FRONT OF YOU.

Do you still respond with your passive anti-violence theology and let them rape her in front of you ? (yes ladies and gentlemen... this kind of crap happens). Do you run away and cry for help as they gang bang her like a drum? Yes? You do?

Okay... for you die-hard anti-violence types who have made it this far, I'll change the scenario again:

Now you are riding with your young daughter and the bad guys want to rape HER. Are you still going to let it happen? Running away crying for someone else to save your daughter? Are you going to depend on the police to *save* you? If you got this far, and STILL you wouldn't like to have the option of a GUN... you absolutely DESERVE whatever you get.

For the rest of you who followed this diatribe... you get the point:

Having the option to defend yourself with a weapon such as a gun is INFINITELY better than NOT having the option.

This is about options ladies and gentlemen... nothing more. It is better to be free than to be controlled.

If I believed in God... I would thank her for being blessed enough to live in the United States of America.

The US ins't perfect... but I believe it to be the best damn place to be one this planet we call Earth.

Signing off so I can go to work...

Joe West

Originally Posted by evanhyde

well here's your good reason. While riding in remote trails in Alaska, it is not uncommon to come around a corner and see a bear. Usually the bear runs away from you. but if you are unlucky enough to run into a bear with cubs or a bear who has associated people with food, you may find yourself in need of some defense in the form of fire power. surely some canadians can relate to this.

(as far as road biking goes, i agree there is no reason to pack heat)

Originally Posted by Alpha

Good point!

But my question is......why hasn't any of the 4 20ish guys already shot you?

According to your logic, they should also have guns!

Originally Posted by wjbieb

I didn't/couldnt' take the time to read allllll 24 pages of ramblings of weapons carried on a ride. I remember when I was riding at a younger age, a guy we rode with thought a log truck passed too close so he flipped him the bird. The logger stopped, got out, the guy got off the bike and they faced off, and the cycling lost because he didn't use his head. Some of these posts are really amazing the ignorance that one uses in their life. Where I ride, there are many cyclists that I see that I laugh and thank god they are not like the guy I remember from when I was younger. Not only can they not stop at signs and lights, but they also can't ride a straight line. If you put a gun in their hand they are going to kill someone. Guns were made for a specific purpose, and think about it! They are made to destroy or kill. Weapons need to be shown their due respect for what they stand for. When you are riding, your pulse rate is high. When you feel threatened, your adrenaline kicks in. Look at a really stressful situation and notice how the body reacts. Your body has to deal with the adrenaline. All of these factors combined into a situation could also affect the judgement of someone that is not properly trained in dealing with such a scenario, and without proper training/safety procedures, most would probably pull the trigger. And like I have seen in quite a few posts, you will be dealing with jail time. Think about it!

Now, a comment for the canadians. I am going to have to agree with some of the posts I have seen. YOU are not living in the U.S. Just because your country does not allow for certain things that we have the freedom to do here, do not judge that. We don't judge you for not waging war on your enemies. We do not judge you for not carrying weapons. We are all not warfighting babykilling gun totin rednecks down here. Many americans are veterans. Veterans of foreign wars, combat veterans that believe in the freedom that we have gained through history. I am not going to give a history lesson here, but keep in mind that we have a short history, but a very rich history. And that is truly what we believe in.

I know that based on traditional forums, I will probably have some rebuttals to my thoughts. But remember, they are mine. I own them. I said them. And yes, I fought for my freedom of speech. Just remember that weapons don't win the war, necessarily. The mind does. The mind is your best tool that you can use. When a situation arises, do NOT be ignorant. Consequences to quick decisions sometimes are lifetime.

I have to just sit here and shake my head at some of the things that were said, and how many people don't care about what is lawful. I respect some of the thoughts that were passed, as they are strictly that: Thoughts. Just remember, there are laws out there that you are 'supposed' to abide by. But your mind and the way you use it can get you out of many stressful situations. Trust me on this. Also, on the O.C. spray....or CS as some of you have referred to, you should check your state laws on that and see what the legal percentage you are allowed to carry before you buy that one off the internet and carry it.

Touching on the scenario of some guy passing too close to you, then stopping, and you pulling out your .280 or .22......or your shotgun for that matter! Just remember that your actions if you both escalate the situation or no better than doing the same in YOUR car and both of you pulling over to the side of the road to discuss the problem. It's called...hmmm...road rage. Granted, I have had some close calls from ignorant people. Those are the ones that are usually on the cell phone, driving too fast, not paying attention...etc.......But I do NOT carry my firearm with me while riding. OC spray, yes. I am trained with both items for my job. I DO carry a firearm at work, and spray. Do I know how to read a situation? Yes. Do I carry off duty in other situations? Yes. Do I carry while riding however? NO. About spray not warding off 4 attackers: crap. I have seen situations where one person is in a situation where there maybe be 48 would be attackers. The officer is protected with JUST spray. And a radio. But his mind is his tool. So to ward off 4 punks passing by in a car: Yes. Spray is efficient. You don't empty your can on one guy. 1/2 second bursts are sufficient.

I've rambled enough now to feel like I am preaching here. And remember, I did not pick out and single out anyone's personal ID. So don't take things personally and feel the need to bash me in rebuttal. And just remember: The truth only hurts those that KNOW it's the TRUTH!

OUT.

Originally Posted by wjbieb

I didn't/couldnt' take the time to read allllll 24 pages of ramblings of weapons carried on a ride. I remember when I was riding at a younger age, a guy we rode with thought a log truck passed too close so he flipped him the bird. The logger stopped, got out, the guy got off the bike and they faced off, and the cycling lost because he didn't use his head. Some of these posts are really amazing the ignorance that one uses in their life. Where I ride, there are many cyclists that I see that I laugh and thank god they are not like the guy I remember from when I was younger. Not only can they not stop at signs and lights, but they also can't ride a straight line. If you put a gun in their hand they are going to kill someone. Guns were made for a specific purpose, and think about it! They are made to destroy or kill. Weapons need to be shown their due respect for what they stand for. When you are riding, your pulse rate is high. When you feel threatened, your adrenaline kicks in. Look at a really stressful situation and notice how the body reacts. Your body has to deal with the adrenaline. All of these factors combined into a situation could also affect the judgement of someone that is not properly trained in dealing with such a scenario, and without proper training/safety procedures, most would probably pull the trigger. And like I have seen in quite a few posts, you will be dealing with jail time. Think about it!

Now, a comment for the canadians. I am going to have to agree with some of the posts I have seen. YOU are not living in the U.S. Just because your country does not allow for certain things that we have the freedom to do here, do not judge that. We don't judge you for not waging war on your enemies. We do not judge you for not carrying weapons. We are all not warfighting babykilling gun totin rednecks down here. Many americans are veterans. Veterans of foreign wars, combat veterans that believe in the freedom that we have gained through history. I am not going to give a history lesson here, but keep in mind that we have a short history, but a very rich history. And that is truly what we believe in.

I know that based on traditional forums, I will probably have some rebuttals to my thoughts. But remember, they are mine. I own them. I said them. And yes, I fought for my freedom of speech. Just remember that weapons don't win the war, necessarily. The mind does. The mind is your best tool that you can use. When a situation arises, do NOT be ignorant. Consequences to quick decisions sometimes are lifetime.

I have to just sit here and shake my head at some of the things that were said, and how many people don't care about what is lawful. I respect some of the thoughts that were passed, as they are strictly that: Thoughts. Just remember, there are laws out there that you are 'supposed' to abide by. But your mind and the way you use it can get you out of many stressful situations. Trust me on this. Also, on the O.C. spray....or CS as some of you have referred to, you should check your state laws on that and see what the legal percentage you are allowed to carry before you buy that one off the internet and carry it.

Touching on the scenario of some guy passing too close to you, then stopping, and you pulling out your .280 or .22......or your shotgun for that matter! Just remember that your actions if you both escalate the situation or no better than doing the same in YOUR car and both of you pulling over to the side of the road to discuss the problem. It's called...hmmm...road rage. Granted, I have had some close calls from ignorant people. Those are the ones that are usually on the cell phone, driving too fast, not paying attention...etc.......But I do NOT carry my firearm with me while riding. OC spray, yes. I am trained with both items for my job. I DO carry a firearm at work, and spray. Do I know how to read a situation? Yes. Do I carry off duty in other situations? Yes. Do I carry while riding however? NO. About spray not warding off 4 attackers: crap. I have seen situations where one person is in a situation where there maybe be 48 would be attackers. The officer is protected with JUST spray. And a radio. But his mind is his tool. So to ward off 4 punks passing by in a car: Yes. Spray is efficient. You don't empty your can on one guy. 1/2 second bursts are sufficient.

I've rambled enough now to feel like I am preaching here. And remember, I did not pick out and single out anyone's personal ID. So don't take things personally and feel the need to bash me in rebuttal. And just remember: The truth only hurts those that KNOW it's the TRUTH!

OUT.

Originally Posted by Joe West

I'm not entirely sure what your point is here. Are you suggesting that it is better not to be carrying a handgun if one of the bad guys has one?

Regardless of whether or not the bad guy has a handgun... I'd still rather have one than not have one.

The bottom line is; having options is always better than having no options... and the more options you have; the better.

Joe

Originally Posted by Catabolic Jones

I appreciate the main thrust of your point, Alpha. However, I take umbrage that you would impugn the character of Canadians. Canadians have ALWAYS stood unflinchingly in the front lines against what is CLEARLY evil and inhumane. If you think otherwise, I suggest YOU consult the history books. Of special interest might be the campaigns in Holland in WWII against the SS troops, or Vimy Ridge. I recommend Pierre Berton's account of the latter.

Other than that, I really enjoyed your post, and your thoughts are welcome here.

Originally Posted by Alpha

<snip>
Bottom line is, I agree with a gun in the home for protection. But when you feel you need to carry a gun with you at all times to feel safe, it is a sad society we live in! Guns don't make it better!