**** Breaking News: Hamilton Tested Positive? ***

James Felstead

sorry! that was meant to say unlikely

Beastt

It's an issue of rules and procedures. It appears Hamilton violated the rules, now we follow through the procedures.

Beastt

I agree, James. I'm always willing to debate but when it becomes more than just a comparison of beliefs and the reasons for those beliefs -- when either side becomes so angered that they can't issue a civil post -- it's time to stop and that time came a long time ago. That doesn't mean I won't post here but perhaps antoineg should put me on ignore for his own peace of mind. People should be allowed their opposing viewpoints without an online war breaking out.

James Felstead

well - i think it cuts both ways mate

Beastt

Then obviously you've offered your opinion without checking the relative civility of the posts from each side. It's impossible to miss his anger, his loss of continuity and his slanderous, unbacked claims. But... say as you like.

James Felstead

mate - your objectivity and appreciation of another person's pint of view is unsurpassed. I'm sure you'll go far in life.

Virenque

Hm..I did never expect that Julich will say something like that! It`s not usual if two riders are on good terms! As I know, their relations were good, but that (except first part) sounds a little strange! Or is there anything I don`t know about them?
And link..

meb

The omitted early portion of that Interbike quote expressed an opinion that Hamilton was the last person Julich could imagine cheating, then contrasted the opposite side of the issue.

As for their relationshiip, Julich and Hamilton were recently Olympic roomates.

Saucy

A New York Times article on Tyler Linked to Herald Tribute as NYT requires a password. The NYT article appears to be longer.

Nothing new. Not sure why I’m linking it but it does show that Tyler is still arguing that he is innocent and he is pretty defiant about it, especially about keeping his gold medal.(My comments about journalistic integrity have been removed. It appears thatthe NYT article has more information about doping scandals and Perez getting busted.)

Tyler seems a little ticked that people have abandoned him:



The article mentions Tugboat a few times.

jcthomasjr

In regards to the latest Tyler Hamilton affair I offer my 1.99998 cents:

Are all athletes blood dopers? No.
Have some athletes failed dope tests? Yes
Did Tyler Hamilton fail one or more dope tests? Yes
Are dope tests correct 100% of the time? No
Does someone who is accused of something have the right to defend him or herself? Yes
Should Tyler Hamilton be allowed to question the tests and defend himself? I don't know.
Are those who are accused always guilty? No
Does everyone accept that the UCI and WADA results are accurate and conclusive?


What I can not understand is that his cycling team and his legal team have requested that the testing methodology be presented but the IOC and the UCI have refrained from divulging the details of the tests. In a legal system where someone is innocent until proven guilty, the accused has the right to ask that the evidence be presented. All the evidence. Not bits and pieces, not some of it because there may be confidentiality issues. No, if you accuse someone of something or they fail a test, the testing methodology and results should be presented and should be scrutinized. I think since Tyler Hamilton is the first to fail this "blood doping" test there is no precedent so the most important thing to do is determine that the test is actually accurate. What is wrong with that?

I admire Tyler Hamilton and I would prefer that he be allowed to challenge the test for authenticity. I hope that he is innocent, but I hope more that the test is accurate because I do not condone the use of drugs in sport. In the long run the more accurate and consistent the testing measures the better off all the honest athletes will be and the worst off all the cheaters will be. But that is in a perfect world and we all know we live in a perfect world.

How many other people have seen the move "12 Angry Men"? I think there are two versions and I have only seen the original version with Henry Fonda. The facts, just the facts please. Based on the facts at the moment Tyler is guilty. The question becomes is the test the means for proving him guilty? If it is, then why is he even allowed to challenge it? The only way he could not challenge it is if the test has been proven to be close to an acceptable level of correctness. There appears to be contradictions when it comes to different doctors and scientists opinions on the accuracy of the test. So based on this it would seem reasonable that he be allowed to challenge the test.

Ok, may it was my 1.99999 cents worth. And, it is all just my opinion.

__________________
Like each bike ride, life is a journey.

Saucy

I think a previous poster mentioned that they don't want to disclose details about the test because this would help dopers cheat the test i.e. they would know what "marker" thingys are checked for something or other. Sorry, I don't talk science too good. But basically the more that is known about the test, the easier it will be for the cheaters to beat it. Maybe someone smart can confirm this?

Perro Loco

once again all that exists is speculation. If one knew exactly which antigens where tested for - a battery of ~13 antibodies are used- you could theorecticaly find someone who is an exact match and thus avoid detection. The probability of this - is low as I seem to remember that the developers suggest that the probability is < 1 in 10,000. When you normaly transfuse blood, you only match for major antigens ABO and Rh and determine if the person has pre-formed antibodies against the blood being transfused. Unleess someone has had extensive transfusions these "minor antigens" do not cause a problem.

meb

The 1/10,000 would not be mathematically possible with 13 antigens being tested for: 2^13=4096. So even if you had an exact 50-50 phenotype split in your tests, 1/4096 would be the most extreme odds in a random sample.

The developers have asserted 1.7/1000 matches in the caucasion population, 2/1000 in the asian population, and 3/1,0000,000 in the black population (obviously on the black population matching the developer made a jumbo error/mistatement-do the math). Keep in mind that is RANDOM samples of the population. A non-twin sibling/parent/child would have a 1/22 chance at an exact match if the parents were randomly chosen from the general population. 1/16 persons would differ by only 1 antigen, 1/60 by only 2 antigens. Within closely related ethnic groups within a race, the correlation between donor and recipeint would be significantly stronger.

Virenque

Russia and Australia for Hamilton`s gold! Because I don`t believe Tyler is innocent, I really hope Eki will get it!