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24-08.-2004, 08:20 PM
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#16 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 40
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Re: acceleration
Cycling is far more efficient than running and I can think of four reasons off the top of my head: 1) body's centre of gravity doesn't pop up and down like in running 2) leg acceleration and deceleration and kinetic energy is far lower in cycling (almost constant) leg tip velocity exceeds 100 km-hr for good 100 m dash runners 3) you can't use the hamstrings and hip flexors to actively assist in running but you can pull up on the pedals in sprint cycling 4) cycling uses constant and lower forces applied to the pedal continuously while in running the power only comes when in contact with the ground which is a very short period of time in sprinting.
This is probably why the marathon time for 42 km is 2 hrs 5 minutes while a good cyclist can take it down in less than an hour. I can easily beat my 100 m sprint time on a bike and am faster over 10-25 meters as well. |
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24-08.-2004, 10:39 PM
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#17 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 948
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
we were talking about accelerating from 0 to ~37kph/23mph. running is more efficient during the first few seconds of acceleration. i think we all know that cycling is more efficient just about everywhere else. |
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25-08.-2004, 06:18 PM
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#18 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 40
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Re: acceleration
Velomanct, as I said I can easily beat my 25 meter dash time on the bike, no way I can run 3.40 25 meter. If I used starting blocks and could hold the brakes and press down hard on the pedals before accelerating I would go even faster over the 25 meters. Cycling is more efficient period, none of the factors I listed are affected by velocity they are true at all speeds and distances.
Try a 36x17 and see how fast you can go. |
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28-08.-2004, 09:41 PM
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#19 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 222
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
Just outa curiosity what kind of time are you doing for your start lap? |
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29-08.-2004, 11:45 AM
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#20 |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,075
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Re: acceleration
i see you all saying that you get up to 23mph in said seconds, now i ride at that where ever i go, just this afternoon using 49x15 i was maintaining 32mph, how fast does one have to be able to spin at (RPM) plus whats the best way to improve the strength in your legs for spinning in bigger gears when im on the 11 it seems i pedal alot slower but still maintain 30mph.
now i consider myself to be a cyclist but have decided that i like track and would like to continue doing it, plus would using a larger front chain ring 56tooth make it easier when i go to ride a 50x14 fixed. would the larger ring help if build up strength or would i be better working on RPM's in smaller gears or both.. whats the key to becoming a good track cyclist? |
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29-08.-2004, 02:07 PM
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#21 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 948
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
track racing is all about leg speed. of course you need to be strong and have good fitness, but leg speed is so very important, especially for sprinting on the track. do seated sprints in a small gear like 39x19. i did a bunch of those today, hit 30mph. |
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29-08.-2004, 11:49 PM
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#22 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,075
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
when you said you did a bunch of these do you do them over a set period of time or the duration of the time, curious to as since i have been on the track once, i have enjoyed it and more to the point i really enjoy the exhileration from going fast not that i didn't go fast on roads or decents, there seems to be more of a fear factor on the track. so rather than pushing the larger gears on the hills as i have over the summer, i now want to be able to improve on sprint work over the winter months. |
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29-08.-2004, 11:57 PM
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#23 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 948
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
i did 3 of these sprints throughout my 90minute ride. i usually like to have at least 10 minutes in between sprints. my advice would be to do maybe 5-8 of these sprints, seperated by at least 10 minutes, during a 2-3hr ride. you should also do real sprints too, (not the same day) like 53x16, jump out of the saddle spin it out, then seat and spin as fast as you can for ~12 seconds. i don't get too structured with training, it takes the fun away. |
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30-08.-2004, 01:40 AM
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#24 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,075
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
okey i have just give that a try and its alot easier to get upto speed rather than grinding out a larger gear, plus it seems to be a little easier to maintain, but still i find that i am compelled to change gears, do you reamain at that ratio or increase as you increase in speed, also i have noticed that if i am spinning to fast i have a tendancy to bounce in the seat. i have read that at this point your spinning to fast for that ratio, is that correct would you change or stick to the ratio but slow the spinning down a little. where as normally i'd be hard pressed to the back of the seat with little or no contact with it. does it still apply as far back on the seat as you find comfortable and slip to the front of the seat as you tire. i'm used to 49x11 on my MTB but on my tribike i ride 53xsecond cog of 11\21 56x15 3 cog of 11\23 i ain't sure what amount there is on there. |
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30-08.-2004, 10:35 AM
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#25 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 948
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
when i do these high cadence seated sprints, i stay in one gear, usually 39x19 or 17 if it's slightly downhill. i definitely bounce in the saddle when i get up near 30mph during this drill. that's okay, it's only a sprint, and your body should adapt. don't worry about bouncing. the whole point of this drill is to condition your fast twitch muscles to fire at very high rpm(fastest possible), with medium resistence. (at the end of these sprints, i am at about 600watts. not maximum, but not light resistence.) this drill should improve your top end speed in a 200 meter track sprint, where you are in the saddle pedaling as fast as possible, even though you are likely to be at 140-160rpms, not 180) i would also recomend you do seated sprints in a big gear like 53x13 from ~15mph, which last 12-15 seconds(stay in that gear the whole time). this will improve your seated leg strength and explosiveness, very important for top end speed on the track. standing jumps in a medium gear are also another good drill. you need to be able to snap that gear from ~20mph. go all out for ~8 seconds. really really put in the effort. these are best done with a training partner of simular ability. you will probally shift once or twice, depending on your starting gear and speed. |
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21-09.-2004, 03:14 AM
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#26 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 403
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Re: acceleration
There was a really neat dam by my dads house which was only about 120 meters long and had steep hills on both ends. My brother and I would roll down a hill at about 20-25mph and then on the straight floor it and hold it as long as possible only then to roll up the other hill and rest and repeat. I would typically max around 36mph and my brother would whiz by me usually topping 40mph. It was great fun for us thinking we were on the autobahn and he was going to blow by me and me trying in vain to fend him off. I miss that...
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21-09.-2004, 03:57 AM
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#27 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,075
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
is that right???? Also i have started adding 1 legged intervals mashing out a top gear, upto about 60 revelutions then exchanging, now this alone for over an hour i have noticed an increase in speed, when i use both legs, plus when they tire i can have a little rest and let one leg take over so they git to recover on the move. out on the road on a flat stretch i was maintaining 43mph, i could have gone more but i was drafting off some shocked motorcyclist  so far its working.but when you say seated leg sprints, do ou apply your weight more over the rear of the saddle pushing across the pedals opposed to pushing down.??? Last edited by closesupport : 21-09.-2004 at 04:12 AM. |
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21-09.-2004, 08:42 AM
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#28 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Mtl, Can.
Posts: 19
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Re: acceleration
[QUOTE=closesupport]I do something similar, but when i jump to standing and stamping (Stomp) on the pedals i usually fiind that i bounce the backend of the bike, if it doesn't bounce i ain't offering enough forward momentum and too much weight on the backend, (if you imagine, just passing the 12o'clock position and stamping as hard as you can on the pedal) i find that when the bike has reached my standing speed the backend doesn't bounce anymore...
I'm not doing any of these workouts, but I was just reading and noticed I experienced the same thing as closesupport. Quite often when sprinting out of a corner in a crit, I find the back end of my bike hops a lot. The back wheel will literally hop off the ground and kind of jump to the in the middle of a sprint. I'm assuming this is dangerous and maybe causes me to lose power. Does this happen to anyone else? Should it not be happening? How can it be fixed? Thanks! -Racer Dave |
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21-09.-2004, 08:52 AM
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#29 | |
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Banned
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,075
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
Something to do with generating forward momentum. momentum = mass * velocity. In a more general sense momentum is mass in motion. Its unit is kg*m/s. Basically this gives an output of how hard something is to stop. i think anyway, if i'm wrong someone correct me? but it works for me. Last edited by closesupport : 21-09.-2004 at 09:05 AM. |
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24-09.-2004, 04:28 AM
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#30 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 948
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Re: acceleration
Quote:
I think you just need to work on your form a little more. Your back end shouldn't be bouncing during an acceleration on a smooth road. (I have done sprints on crappy pavement and my back end is ALL over the place) When I so seated sprints in a big gear I sit normally and concentrate on applying maximum force throughout the whole pedal stroke. Of course I am pushing harder on the downstroke. 38mph for a kilometer? That is wicked fast, especially after a standing start. You would be a very very good kilo rider on the track. I usually top out at 34mph during a kilo effort, and just try to hold that speed the rest of the way. My one minute/kilo power is around 700watts average if I am motivated. I did some sprints yesterday, it was a lot of fun. Early in the ride I was out on a main route with heavy traffic, speed limit of 45mph. I start winding it up for this slight downhill section, so I can get through there fast without cars passing me. I was up at 45mph after the small 40ft elevation drop, with the traffic behind me. But I figure since I was at the speed limit, I wasn't holding them up (It's a hard place to pass a biker). It was the fastest I have ever gone through that section, lots of fun. And to think that elite track sprinters do that same speed without a downhill, I felt fast for once! Last edited by velomanct : 24-09.-2004 at 04:41 AM. |
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