Armstrong/Seimoni Round 2...

limerickman

Throw in the close relationship between Armstrong and various Bo-technological companies.
Armstrong is in receipt of considerable commercial endorsement from these companies - is it beyond the pale to suggest that he or his team may receive
drugs from same ?

Throw in his clandestine training regime and cycling program : typically doping is phased so as to avoid detection but to maximise performances when competing.

RedSky

OK, then if Lance Armstrong is caught cheating we can all buy you a pint and you can say "I told you so."

In the meantime, I'm keeping the pints to myself.

antoineg

How overwhelming is it when we know of many other cyclists who have not tested positive at point A but at point B were found to have been doping back at point A?

Agreed: let's let the people decide by themselves.

How have I been hysterical?

to turn the tables, it would appear from some posters' comments that even if the USPS bus were searched and the authorities found empty EPO vials you might not consider that as a "fact".

This is really what we're up against: superhero worship by people who need to put LA on a pedestal. In my humble opinion.

I'm quite comfortably dealing with it -- are you?

birdman23

Various companies? Which ones? I only know of one. He is a spokesperson for Bristol Meyer Squibb, the company that made the medications that saved his life during his cancer treatments.

Yes it is beyond pale to suggest they receive drugs from the company. It is speculation and conjecture at its worst Limerickman. You are really grasping at straws here.

Did you see the "vitamins" on LA's night stand in his hotel room. The crafty bastard put his dope right there on the night stand and told the cameras to not show the vitamins for fear of the press saying they saw pills in his room. What a brilliant strategy!! He put the drugs in plain sight and laughed it off when he said "don't show the vitamins".

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RedSky

He's already on a pedestal, mate. This is his sixth trip. You're just trying to tear him down.

birdman23

Exactly, so until he is caught everyone shut the hell up about it already. And I guess plan on shutting the hell up for a long time cause the guy is clean.

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meehs

I don't know if you've missed anything on the "might be a doper" side but to include such broad generalizations and hearsay on your list of "evidence" that Lance MIGHT be a doper is comical!

Let's see here are a few I could add to the "not a doper evidence list" some of which use your own broad catagorization as to what we can consider to be "evidence".

1. Lack of one single shred of physical evidence that Armstrong has doped. Only speculation and hearsay. (you seem to have missed that one, oops!)
2. Armstrong's physical and mental transformation post-cancer along with his increased dedication to training and diet are just as valid an explanation for his improvement as doping.
3. Not a single one of Armstrong's peers in the peleton has accused Armstrong of doping or even insinuated it. Only cynics and the media.
4. EPO and other performance enhancers have proven not to provide the huge performance boost that the nay-sayers would have you beleive that it has given Armstrong. Virenque, Millar, Festina... Big winners?
5. Armstrong does not perform at a unbelievably high level whe compared to his main competitors. (Are they all dopers?)
6. It would be foolish for Armstrong to risk what would happen to his career and reputation if he were busted.
7. Decision by Jean-Marie Leblanc to omit not only riders charged of a doping offense but also those under investigation.
8. It's unlikely that someone who has suffered a near death experience with cancer would want to introduce a foreign substance into their body. (Yeah I know but read some of the "evidence" on your list)

There, combined with the two you already listed, that equals your "evidence" that he might be a doper. Maybe thos of us giving Armstrong the benefit of the doubt are being naive. But some of the "evidence" that those wanting to condemn him are putting forth is ridiculous! General widespread knowledge on how to beat tests???? Yep, you nailed him! That's it! He's guilty! Gimme a break!

HuckFinn

Some irritating non-English parts included, but quite informative:

http://www.ergogenics.org/donati.html

meehs

I think that to suggest that one of Armstrong's commercial sponsors (I assume you're refering to Bristol Meyers Squibb? there's only one incedently) would supply him with drugs that would bring him down (if he were caught) and thereby destroy the credibility of their ad campaign and their company is absurd. You've completely outdone yourself in grasping at straws this time.

birdman23

Are you kidding Meehs? Limerickman and all the other naysayers are correct. They have finally convinced me. Of course a multi billion dollar company would stake its entire reputation for the chance to get a few more measly dollars. I am sure they had a share holder meeting about the subject. "All those in favor of giving Lance illegal drugs say I..." And of course it was unanimous.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA.

Limerick you are slipping here and it is disappointing. Come on man you are better than that. LMFAO

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limerickman

Southampton University tonight announced the first ever test to detect
Human Growth Hormone.
The IOC have requested this test to be used in Athens and the test will be used in Athens.
So what does have to do with Bristol Myers ?

Dr Caroline Porter project manager at Southampton University named Bristol
Myers Squibb as the leading developer of HGH in the world.
HGH has been undectable - until now that is.
Southampton University's tests can detect HGH usage within the last 36 hours and have a secondary test which can detect HGH usage during the past 84 hours.

Quote Porter "this development is radical. The bio-technology companies
are interested in profit and will develope drugs for profit primarily.
The ethical question as to how those drugs are used is immaterial.
Sport generates £26 billion per year.
The drug companies are not particularly concerned with helping the drug detection agencies in the detection of performance enhancing drugs in sport.
This new test is a positive step against the cheats - and it is also a step against the profittering of those bio-tech companies who distribute these drugs and have no concern who or how their end product is used".

TrekDedicated

http://msn.foxsports.com/story/2613290


New story

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antoineg

If by speculation and hearsay you discount Emma O'Reilly, then OK.

If that's all it took, then a lot of cyclists might be more superior, even without going through cancer. You act like he's the only guy that trains. Look, he's a specimen to be sure but it's not like he's competing against Barney Rubble.

Not true. Former USPS riders have insinuated it.

Laughable. Show me the "proof" that EPO doesn't work. EPO is huge. Virenque is the all-team leader in King of the Mountains, Millar was world time-trial champion. Rumsas took third in the TdF.

Not sure, but some knowledgable estimates put the incidence of EPO use as high as 90%. Former rider knowledgable, not internet yahoo.

Doesn't stop most people.

Armstrong is not under investigation for doping right now, that I know of.

That's your judgment, and as I pointed out, would you take cocaine for $10,000,000 a year? Many would. People do stupid shit all the time for way less of a payday than Lance gets.

That's my judgement. Doping is very widespread in sports, and it's naive to think otherwise.

birdman23

Source please. The articles I have read about this say nothing of BMS.
Never mind the source thing I am now convinced every rider in the peloton is a doper. This must be why Lance declined going to the Olympics right? There, that was a freebie for your arsenal of speculation Limerickman.

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