Verdict on the 2004 TDF

limerickman

I didn't see anything in Velo - Eurosport made some reference to his not going well and his dog dying and that his wife brought the dog down to the Tour on the rest day before getting him put down.

Oscar Sevilla revealed to ES that TH was distraught about his dogs condition
and that is why he dropped out of the race.
I was aware that he crashed but not to the extent of the injuries.

Seems pretty injury prone to crashing and injuring himself in the TDF though ?

Brunswick_kate

http://www.velonews.com/tour2004/di...les/6609.0.html

Yeah, his dog died. Take a look at the man's back and ask yourself if you'd be climbing some kick ass mountain. He wouldn't have made the day.

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DeRosa_AV

While his back looks bad he completed and rode better in last years tour with a broken collerbone, this showed spirit and this year he had non and that could be down to his dog. I agree with Limerickman, the opposition has dissapointed and gifted LA his 6th win.

gntlmn

I was kind of wondering about this too, until I heard the parting interview by Hamilton. It was all about his back. On the flat stages, the motion is a bit different than on the hills. Whereas, he could muster staying in the game on the flats, he was having a very tough time in the mountains. It wasn't about the pain, which he said was minimal. It was about the muscles simply not functioning properly. Somehow the nerves in his back were not allowing him to move properly, and he simply could not climb. The team doctor warned him that he would do permanent damage if he continued in such a state, and when Tyler saw how it was affecting his climbing, he wisely threw in the towel.

This is different than last year. I bet the pain was much worse last year, but a shoulder injury does not affect as directly your pedalling action as this back injury did. So he road with extreme pain last year, knowing that unless he landed on it again, the motion would not harm it. Such was not the case this year.

Brunswick_kate

Another link on the nature of the injury and its effect on cycling performance...

http://www.roadcycling.com/news/article725.shtml

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mojomarc

I've actually enjoyed it greatly. Voekler's courage in the Pyrennes was exceptionally entertaining, and watching the overall strength of USPS was something to behold and remember, because the team literally destroyed the competition. We haven't had too many long solo breaks in the mountains, but had a lot of sprint finishes on the mountain stages, which I found very entertaining. Finally, we have a long time trial which could change the order of the 2-4 riders drastically, depending on the heart of the riders involved. All of these threads have been very compelling to me.

I suppose if all you're concerned about is who is in the yellow, and being a newbie here but having read a number of your posts I know you're not a fan of Armstrong, then I can see why it would be disappointing.


If I understand you correctly here, you're saying he deserves his victory because everyone else sucked. Personally, I think that is a very pessimistic view. I simply think that Armstrong proved that he was that much stronger than everyone else. After all, while you didn't see him chasing down too many climbers up ahead of him doing the cannibalizing by himself, the fact that simple aggressive tempo riding by USPS was strong enough to drop professional cyclists off the back should be testimony to how strong his team was, and that after that punishment he could still win all the sprints he cared to win with relative ease should prove how much stronger he was than any of the competitors.

I know you won't agree, but there is another side of the coin.


I don't think there was an issue of being convinced with JU. I think he was simply outclassed. He was dropped not by breaks in the Pyrennes, but by tempo riding, along with much of the rest of the field. His only resistence was in the time trial at L'Alpe d'Huez and that last mountain stage in the Alps, but there was no question he was eaten alive in the earlier mountains.


I don't know. I saw a guy who was basically run to his limit while Armstrong still had gas in the tank. Perhaps his lack of breaks earlier are what you're criticizing, and that's fair enough, but I see it instead as a tactical consideration. If there is anything LA has shown over the last six tours it's that knowing when to break is almost more important than having the ability to break, so perhaps this is the new standard tactic that teams are using. After all, it's clearly a winning tactic for one guy :-D

I agree in general with your other points about the competitors (with the exception of Hamilton, who really was incapable of riding in the mountains after his crash), but once again I think it was mostly recognition by the field that LA was by far the superior cyclist this year, despite the doubts heading in. Even you have to admit that Armstrong's performance in the prologue was somewhat surprising, and his first showing in the La Mongie stage was dramatic given the doubts going into the Tour about him after last year. Many were still thinking JU was the class before that stage, and they were proven wrong. For me, that was very interesting.

I respect your positions, and I don't want this to be a debate about the class of cyclists so much, but really there have been, at least for me, many compelling stories in the Tour this year, and there are still a number remaining.

Marc

Brunswick_kate

Thank YOU Marc...I was beginning to think I was the only cycling fan in the world who didn't think this year was a failure because LA and USPS didn't get their asses handed to them on a platter. Personally, I'm glad they dominated the way they did. It shows how seriously they took this Tour. It would have been oh so tempting, I'm sure, to coast with a "been there, done that" attitude. The entire team showed up ready to do business. They were fit. They were prepared. And they payed respect to the institution of the Tour de France by showing up on game, on target and ready to roll. I'd have been disappointed in them if they'd showed up in any other mindset than rolling that Big Blue Train.

Voelker...oh my...what a heart. What a heart! In fact, the entire " Bakery Boys" team were inspirational. And some of the other young riders...the LAs and the THs and the JUs...they getting ready to move on but the Tour will live with the heart and courage fo the Ceasars and the Voelkers.

Jan Ullrich...oh man...what can you say other than I think you need a team behind you. I don't think TMobile has served you as well as you deserve.

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tinajoy

I've totally enjoyed watching the Tour this year. But I must admit ............I was totally upset when Tyler Hamilton had to abandon. In my opinion a healthy Hamilton would have been a threat to LA. If they ever compete head to head it will be great to watch.............maybe next year...?

limerickman

It's a moot point whether LA kept the leading contenders in check or whether
they simply failed to fire.

The point is that as a contest - and as regards this fan - this TDF has been
disappointing viewing.


(You answer the question though yourself - Hamilton crashed, Mayo crashed also : Basso is only content with second place : Ullrich's own team are knifing him at every turn : a great spectacle ? Non !)

mocka58

Yes it's been disappointing as a contest but I always enjoy the spectacle. And I might be in the minority but I enjoy a dominating performance like the one we got this year. I reckon only about one in ten Tours de France are really close anyway so we were spoiled last year I think. They're not all gems unfortunately.
One of the things I like about Armstrong's achievement (and Indurain's in winning 5 straight) is the ability to front every year and be the best. Other guys might be strong for a year or two then fade but to keep coming back and proving yourself number one again and again is impressive. For me anyway.

limerickman

Good point.
The TDF is more often than not, not a great spectacle as a sporting contest.
And of the course the ability to win year after year is impressive.

jhuskey

Well I have beat this to death in earlier threads. As far as Hamilton goes If your dog that was like child to you died would you throw it in the ditch or take it home for burial,just a thought from a dog lover. As far as Lance goes I believe his performance last year affected this years performance I believe he was not going to leave any possible margin for weakness.
My one hope is that the American public at large appreciates this major accomplishment and recognizes it. But then again he only rides a bike and anyone can ride a bike .RIGHT? As for me just did a short 25 m. thru the hills so I could catch the end of the stage. Going out on the boat now for ride and a brew.Everyone have a great day

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Yardboy

[QUOTE=limerickman]
However, it is my belief that his victory is tainted by the lack of quality opposition this year.QUOTE]

it's like michael schumacher in F1. i get so sick of his dominance, but it's not his fault he and ferrari are so much better than everyone else. its everyone elses fault for sucking as bad as they do.

well, i really hope LA races the classics next year. he should have plenty of stiff competition there.

DeRosa_AV

LA in Paris - Roubaix, that is something I would like to see. Somehow don't think I will.