Final decision - new bike purchase

Alex Rodriguez

In article <Xns94ECB009D7D26duckrulestheuniverse@140.99.99.130>,
email.to.sitting-duck@spamgourmet.com says...
>Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>> I sure hope the other points they supposedly beat the Trek on are based
>> on fact and not the fiction of aluminum being stiff compared to steel.
>
>While it may be debatable whether you will notice a difference on the bike,
>aluminum *IS* stiffer than steel.

Really? You should read a materials book sometime.
--------------
Alex

Badger_South

On Tue, 18 May 2004 12:14:31 -0400, Alex Rodriguez <adr5@columbia.edu>
wrote:

>In article <re9ia011afp0he9c5phor7e2djc3bds1l6@4ax.com>, Badger@South.net
>says...
>
>>He said he'd swap out the front riser for me after I've ridden it a while,
>>no charge, if it doesn't seem high enough. Is there a way to test that in
>>the shop? A measurement?
>
>If you put the bike on a trainer and ride for a while, you can usually
>tell what feels comfortable. But it does take a bit of time to do.
>------------
>Alex

That makes a lot of sense. I'm surprised nobody suggested that at the
store, and offered to supply a trainer. It doesn't take any skill to ride
those, b/c it just hooks up the back wheel, right?

Part of the blame for the failure of the sale, IMO rests on the bike shop
for just having a 'well ride it a while and see how it is' approach. They
don't offer anywhere to test ride it except in a mall parking lot that's
mostly flat and one spends one's time trying not to get run over by
scurrying grocery shoppers.

-B

Mike Jacoubowsky

> Hmm. I'm trying. It's not easy being a noob. At this point considerations
> of price are really secondary, b/c when you consider how much time you
> spend in the saddle, you want everything right, including comfort, fit and
> longevity; you want the components to not hold you back (as Mike pointed
> out with the sub-optimal componentry of the Giant). Neither of the local
> bike shops seem real big on the customization part of the equation.

I must apologize for coming across a bit stridently. It's not that the
Giant has sub-optimal componentry as much as it's a question of whether it
makes sense for your riding. I was also a bit steamed at a manufacturer
taking on another one in a spec-war, when doing so ignores things that are a
lot more important than whether one bike has a Deore derailleur vs '105 on
the other.

As for customization, the main thing you're looking at here is a willingness
to swap out stems as needed, and that someone who has a clue gets a chance
to look at you while riding and make adjustments based on what they see.
Still, keep in mind that fitting hybrids and mountain bikes isn't quite the
science that you have for fitting a road bike; fit tends to be more
subjective on the hybrid, and the more (nearly extreme) upright position
throws most of the old rules out the window.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Badger_South" <Badger@South.net> wrote in message
news:bu8ka0t76g7mstrb41sbhtb6k6aj5tal9q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 18 May 2004 10:23:03 -0400, David Kerber <ns_dkerber@ns_ids.net>
> wrote:
>
> >In article <qd5ka0pd7ns1krs4gt94a355demqmhhbui@4ax.com>,
> >Badger@South.net says...
> >
> >...
> >
> >> Man, I don't know how people ever get a good fit and a decent
evaluation on
> >> a short ride.
> >
> >Mainly because they've ridden enough to know what to look for right
> >away.
>
> Hmm. I'm trying. It's not easy being a noob. At this point considerations
> of price are really secondary, b/c when you consider how much time you
> spend in the saddle, you want everything right, including comfort, fit and
> longevity; you want the components to not hold you back (as Mike pointed
> out with the sub-optimal componentry of the Giant). Neither of the local
> bike shops seem real big on the customization part of the equation.
>
> I have one more place to check, but it appears I'm going to be waiting
> until the June '05 bikes get in as most places are sold out of the '04s.
>
> When I last bought a bike they had only two choices; a Schwinn or a Sears
> no-name, and being a resiliant teenager/ 20 y.o. you just get on and ride.
> But as an ancient mariner, I have to coddle to my bad left hip and my knee
> with the bump on the patella from too much jogging, etc. This doesn't
> translate into a comfort bike, though - it means the bike has to fit, and
> function nearly flawlessly - then one can adapt.
>
> -B
>
>

Badger_South

On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:52:04 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com>
wrote:

>> Hmm. I'm trying. It's not easy being a noob. At this point considerations
>> of price are really secondary, b/c when you consider how much time you
>> spend in the saddle, you want everything right, including comfort, fit and
>> longevity; you want the components to not hold you back (as Mike pointed
>> out with the sub-optimal componentry of the Giant). Neither of the local
>> bike shops seem real big on the customization part of the equation.
>
>I must apologize for coming across a bit stridently. It's not that the
>Giant has sub-optimal componentry as much as it's a question of whether it
>makes sense for your riding. I was also a bit steamed at a manufacturer
>taking on another one in a spec-war, when doing so ignores things that are a
>lot more important than whether one bike has a Deore derailleur vs '105 on
>the other.

Oh not at all. I appreciate your input to the max. It's funny, b/c only a
few cognoscenti would know enough about the componentry to be able to see
the relative merits. It makes it all the more insidious as you're
inferring, though, b/c to the noob it gives that impression. You have to be
good at reverse-engineering the hype these days to see through that kind of
thing. As it was I questioned the salesperson on each point and they didn't
seem to stand behind their assertions - probably was foisted upon them by
the promo guys at Giant.

>As for customization, the main thing you're looking at here is a willingness
>to swap out stems as needed, and that someone who has a clue gets a chance
>to look at you while riding and make adjustments based on what they see.

Yeah you have to be willing to take some time with a serious customer and
since there is a workshop in back one would think they would swap out the
stems while you wait if they intuit you're not fitting well. I mentioned
how on the test ride that I still felt like I was reaching too much, but
was too shy to push the point after he said 'well ride it a while...' That
should have been a red flag to someone. I did mention the mileage I put on
the old beater bike and described my riding habits - not to put too much
blame on the nice salesman, though. I now know better - it's far better to
make good choices before you hand over the plastic and head out the door on
both parties account.

>Still, keep in mind that fitting hybrids and mountain bikes isn't quite the
>science that you have for fitting a road bike; fit tends to be more
>subjective on the hybrid, and the more (nearly extreme) upright position
>throws most of the old rules out the window.

OK, knowing what you do about my riding (city and bike path), heavier
rider, >50 y.o., relativley serious, riding daily at 20mi/day, 100-140
miles per week and increasing, what Trek would you suggest?

If I go for one of the drop bar road bikes should I expect they'd get out a
fit kit for that kind of purchase? Both shops seem to be of the ilk 'well
raise the saddle and go ride around the block', unfortunately.

If I did go to another city, to a larger shop and purchase a Trek with a
professional fitting, would the local Trek shop still support me, give free
tuneups, etc?

-B

David Kerber

In article <ttfka0lg1pakmgifkhplh0uep6i9l84t9f@4ax.com>,
Badger@South.net says...

....

> OK, knowing what you do about my riding (city and bike path), heavier
> rider, >50 y.o., relativley serious, riding daily at 20mi/day, 100-140
> miles per week and increasing, what Trek would you suggest?

If you have a Fuji dealer around, they have some nice entry-level road
bikes as well: the Ace, Finest and Finest Al. The Touring (my bike) is
priced like high entry level ($800), but is aimed much more at the
touring crowd: Rear rack, eyelets for fenders and front rack, threaded
headset, double water-bottle holders, steel frame, MTB rims, 32mm street
tires, wide bars, etc.

>
> If I go for one of the drop bar road bikes should I expect they'd get out a
> fit kit for that kind of purchase? Both shops seem to be of the ilk 'well
> raise the saddle and go ride around the block', unfortunately.

The Trek dealer in my area would do a full fit-kit workup on bikes over
$1000. For lower-cost bikes, they were willing to work with me on the
fit, but not a full workup. Just make sure they can raise the top of
the bars to at least be level with the saddle (more important for us
older riders who don't have quite the flexibility). You can always drop
them, but if they cut off the stem, it's tough to raise them without
getting an extender.


> If I did go to another city, to a larger shop and purchase a Trek with a
> professional fitting, would the local Trek shop still support me, give free
> tuneups, etc?

I think it would be unlikely, but not impossible.

--
Remove the ns_ from if replying by e-mail (but keep posts in the
newsgroups if possible).

sittingduck

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

> Really? You should read a materials book sometime.

We are talking bikes and bike parts here. If aluminum is allowed to flex, it
will break. This is why aluminum bikes are generally built with very large
tubes. They must be stiff or they will fail.

Roger Zoul

Badger_South wrote:
:: On Tue, 18 May 2004 16:52:04 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
:: <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
::
:::: Hmm. I'm trying. It's not easy being a noob. At this point
:::: considerations of price are really secondary, b/c when you
:::: consider how much time you spend in the saddle, you want
:::: everything right, including comfort, fit and longevity; you want
:::: the components to not hold you back (as Mike pointed out with the
:::: sub-optimal componentry of the Giant). Neither of the local bike
:::: shops seem real big on the customization part of the equation.
:::
::: I must apologize for coming across a bit stridently. It's not that
::: the Giant has sub-optimal componentry as much as it's a question of
::: whether it makes sense for your riding. I was also a bit steamed
::: at a manufacturer taking on another one in a spec-war, when doing
::: so ignores things that are a lot more important than whether one
::: bike has a Deore derailleur vs '105 on the other.
::
:: Oh not at all. I appreciate your input to the max. It's funny, b/c
:: only a few cognoscenti would know enough about the componentry to be
:: able to see the relative merits. It makes it all the more insidious
:: as you're
:: inferring, though, b/c to the noob it gives that impression. You
:: have to be good at reverse-engineering the hype these days to see
:: through that kind of thing. As it was I questioned the salesperson
:: on each point and they didn't seem to stand behind their assertions
:: - probably was foisted upon them by the promo guys at Giant.
::
::: As for customization, the main thing you're looking at here is a
::: willingness to swap out stems as needed, and that someone who has a
::: clue gets a chance to look at you while riding and make adjustments
::: based on what they see.
::
:: Yeah you have to be willing to take some time with a serious
:: customer and since there is a workshop in back one would think they
:: would swap out the stems while you wait if they intuit you're not
:: fitting well. I mentioned
:: how on the test ride that I still felt like I was reaching too much,
:: but
:: was too shy to push the point after he said 'well ride it a
:: while...' That should have been a red flag to someone. I did mention
:: the mileage I put on the old beater bike and described my riding
:: habits - not to put too much blame on the nice salesman, though. I
:: now know better - it's far better to make good choices before you
:: hand over the plastic and head out the door on both parties account.
::

I'm not nearly as experience as other here, but I want to mention that over
time your body adaptes some to the new riding position. Obviously, you
don't want to ignore knee pain after 10 minutes of riding.


::: Still, keep in mind that fitting hybrids and mountain bikes isn't
::: quite the science that you have for fitting a road bike; fit tends
::: to be more subjective on the hybrid, and the more (nearly extreme)
::: upright position throws most of the old rules out the window.
::
:: OK, knowing what you do about my riding (city and bike path), heavier
:: rider, >50 y.o., relativley serious, riding daily at 20mi/day,
:: 100-140
:: miles per week and increasing, what Trek would you suggest?
::
:: If I go for one of the drop bar road bikes should I expect they'd
:: get out a fit kit for that kind of purchase? Both shops seem to be
:: of the ilk 'well raise the saddle and go ride around the block',
:: unfortunately.

for the amount of riding you do, I'd get a drop bar roadie...more hand
positions...also, go ride around the block, again, and again, and again....

::
:: If I did go to another city, to a larger shop and purchase a Trek
:: with a professional fitting, would the local Trek shop still support
:: me, give free tuneups, etc?

hell no. not unless you pay.

Badger -- I hope you get yourself a good bike. Spend what it takes....

Badger_South

On Tue, 18 May 2004 15:37:52 -0400, "Roger Zoul" <rogerzoul2@hotmail.com>
wrote:

>for the amount of riding you do, I'd get a drop bar roadie...more hand
>positions...also, go ride around the block, again, and again, and again....
>
>::
>:: If I did go to another city, to a larger shop and purchase a Trek
>:: with a professional fitting, would the local Trek shop still support
>:: me, give free tuneups, etc?
>
>hell no. not unless you pay.
>
>Badger -- I hope you get yourself a good bike. Spend what it takes....

Thanks, Rog. All good info.

-B

Alex Rodriguez

In article <Xns94ED72AA173D1duckrulestheuniverse@140.99.99.130>,
email.to.sitting-duck@spamgourmet.com says...
>
>
>Alex Rodriguez wrote:
>
>> Really? You should read a materials book sometime.
>
>We are talking bikes and bike parts here. If aluminum is allowed to flex, it
>will break. This is why aluminum bikes are generally built with very large
>tubes. They must be stiff or they will fail.

I rode a Vitus 979 for 15k miles before I sold it and it was not broken.
In case you are not familiar, this frame use only slightly oversized tubes.
------------------
Alex

Alex Rodriguez

In article <a3eka0dqo6reqbkk8p6cldqp6muovcdons@4ax.com>, Badger@South.net
says...

>That makes a lot of sense. I'm surprised nobody suggested that at the
>store, and offered to supply a trainer. It doesn't take any skill to ride
>those, b/c it just hooks up the back wheel, right?

Correct, hooks up to the rear wheel. Just remember to stick a block or
book/s under the front wheel to get the bike level. No skill is involved,
unlike rollers that do take a bit of practice.

---------------
Alex

sittingduck

Alex Rodriguez wrote:

> I rode a Vitus 979 for 15k miles before I sold it and it was not broken.
> In case you are not familiar, this frame use only slightly oversized tubes.

So you are saying you are a lightweight? <G>