FAQ on choosing a "clipless" pedal system

Steve Freides

A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.

Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

Thanks in advance.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee

I'm a member of a touring group here in Cork, Ireland, for about 15 years.
At that time when we started touring people used cleats or Look. Now all of
us use SPDs. I've used them since the came in. The VP ones are fine, and
cheaper.

Steve Freides

"Gearóid Ó Laoi/Garry Lee" <glee@iol.ie> wrote in message
news:c89ll4$k61$1@kermit.esat.net...
> I'm a member of a touring group here in Cork, Ireland, for about 15
years.
> At that time when we started touring people used cleats or Look. Now
all of
> us use SPDs. I've used them since the came in. The VP ones are fine,
and
> cheaper.

Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
The question is only which one.

-S-
http://www.kbnj.com

Christopher Brian Colohan

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> writes:
> Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
> SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
> will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
> with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
> The question is only which one.

For a casual cyclist: SPDs are the cheapest option, they work quite
well, and you can get them with a variety of cycling shoes which _you
can walk in_. The "I can walk in my shoes!" argument can trump
everything else if you are just using the bike to get around...

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: chris@colohan.ca PGP: finger colohan@cs.cmu.edu
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751

R15757

Steve Freides wrote:


<< Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
The question is only which one. >>


I recommend the Time mtb pedals. Get the cheapest model, it is just the same as
the expensive model except the pedal body is made of different material. These
pedals cost a little more, but they are the simplest, most rugged, longest
lasting, easiest to use, require no adjustment, work flawlessly in mud and ice,
generally trouble-free piece of equipment. Which can NOT be said of cheap SPD
pedals.

Then get a 40$ pair of shoes and off she goes.

Robert

Ken

Christopher Brian Colohan <colohan+@cs.cmu.edu> wrote in
news:uclvfivnnq5.fsf@cilento.stampede.cs.cmu.edu:
> For a casual cyclist: SPDs are the cheapest option, they work quite
> well, and you can get them with a variety of cycling shoes which _you
> can walk in_. The "I can walk in my shoes!" argument can trump
> everything else if you are just using the bike to get around...

Any mountain bike clipless pedal system can be easily walked in. The biggest
advantage of Shimano SPD is that you get pretty good quality for a low price.
Some other systems offer better performance (especially in muddy conditions)
or lower weight, but always at a higher price.

curt

I have Crank Brothers Eggbeaters and am happy with them. I don't see them
on many bikes. Not sure why.

Curt

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message
news:2gquljF5oftrU1@uni-berlin.de...
> A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
> much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
> getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.
>
> Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
> suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
> in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
> casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
> isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
> while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
> spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> -S-
> http://www.kbnj.com
>
>
>

JP

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message news:<2gquljF5oftrU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
> much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
> getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.
>
> Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
> suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
> in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
> casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
> isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
> while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
> spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

If she likes Frogs, get Frogs. If the thing she likes about Frogs is
that they are double-sided, she might try this Nashbar ATB pedal:

http://tinyurl.com/3dn7f

It is SPD but I find them extremely easy to get in and out of because
they are double sided. Then get some cheap ATB shoes and she's set for
walking and riding for well under $100 total.

There is an even cheaper Nashbar pedal. Don't get it, it's not SPD
compatible.

JP

Richard

"Steve Freides" <> wrote in message news:2gquljF5oftrU1@uni-berlin.de...

> My wife found SPD's hard to get
> in and out of but loves Frogs.

You may want to look at the'multi-release' cleats that are available for SPD
pedals: they're extremely easy to clip out of. Only thing to watch out for
is wear - they get harder to clip out of when they're worn. OTOH, I just
replced my cleats after 4 years and about 10,000 miles, so they don't wear
fast.

They don't come standard with SPD pedals, but have to be purchased
separately, so your wife probably had standard SPD cleats.

With these cleats, a feirly inexpensive set of pedals and shoes, and you're
in business.

--
Richard Utt

Elmo Spam King

On Mon, 17 May 2004 00:52:59 -0400, Steve Freides wrote:
> Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
> suitable for the casual cyclotourist?

I'm no expert, but a friend of mine asked me about clipless pedals about a
year ago and I wrote him an email with my own personal analysis.

It's probably neither complete nor fully accurate, but it's a comparison
and it's for a casual rider.

I'm sure folks all over are going to jump on me for things I wrote, but
I'll post it anyway, just for fun.

[By the way, I personally just switched from a pair of cheap SPD pedals
(PD-M515) to a wonderful, amazing, beautiful, fantastic pair of pedals
(PD-M959). The difference is night and day. I found my pair brand new at
a local co-op for $100. If you are willing to spend the money (they
retail for a fair bit more than that, but see what you can find), they are
worth every penny. Not only do they clip in and out as smoothly as you
could ever want, they turn like butter and are just a goddamn JOY to ride.
I put them on my fixie and I swear it felt like I dropped my gear ratio.
I'm just in love with them and won't hesitate to spend the bucks on great
pedals.]

Here goes (I'll attempt to read it and edit it right now, but remember I
wrote it a year ago for somebody else whom I know well):

Clipless systems consist of pedals and cleats that interlock and give you
the ability to apply force to the cranks at every point in the stroke
(even the back stroke at the bottom, which a clip will never give you).
They're a little bit daunting because you actually have to consciously
unclip your foot before taking it off the pedal and the truth is that you
WILL fall down within the first few times you try to ride with these
things. The cleats require special shoes, but mostly these days they've
standardized enough that most cleats fit most shoes.

There are many types of clipless pedal systems and they're all proprietary
to some extent (though there is some licensing). They break down into
walkable and unwalkable categories and have relative strengths.

I just went online looking for a good comparison, but there wasn't
anything apparent to me. Mostly, folks like what they have or what they
used first and can only compare in one direction.

Really, there are only four practical walkable types: Eggbeaters, Frogs,
ATACs, and SPDs.

Eggbeaters (from Crank Bros.) have a pedal that looks like an eggbeater
with four blades. The cool thing about them is that they are mechanically
super simple and essentially have four "sides" for connecting to the
cleat, whereas most have two. The drawback is that they're a bit less
common and expensive and I don't know anybody that actually uses them to
attest to their walkability, though they have "road" and "MTB" (mountain
bike) cleats which might say something about walkability. They do now
have a platform petal which makes NOT clipping in sometimes workable.
(Mike has these, but he's not really happy with them.)
<URL: http://www.crankbros.com/ >

Frogs by Speedplay are an attempt to adapt a popular fancy road pedal to
more practical wet/dry, walkable pedals. There's only two models from one
manufacturer. The cleats are more expensive if you have more than one
pair of shoes, but only one set of pedals. Some people really like them
because they're light and they look cool. The other Speedplay pedals look
better, to my eyes, but they're not really walkable. There's a new cleat
for the Frog line that's supposedly totally compatible with standard
(we'll see in a moment what that means) shoes.
<URL: http://www.speedplay.com/ >

ATACs from Time are considered the sort of "high performance"
multi-purpose system. They're a bit more expensive, but they're lighter
and they don't come in a non-durable low-end. As with all the others, the
cleats fit just fine in standard shoes. They're not as adjustable as some
others, but they claim they don't have to be. My friend Michael Wolfe
(who rode his recumbent from Portland to Boston, as I've said a billion
times) swore by them, but now he rides eggbeaters.
<URL: http://www.timesportusa.com/ >

SPDs from Shimano are the most common type of pedal. Shimano is the
leading maker of bicycle components and equipment, so this shouldn't be a
surprise. As with everything is the industry, "standard" means the way
Shimano does it (except in cases where Shimano stupidly patented something
that could easily be done another way). So you'll find that shoes made
for ANY walkable cleat will be called "SPD shoes", regardless of which
system you use. There are two SPD systems. There's the regular SPD
that's general use (like I use -- sometimes called MTB) and there's SPD-R
for road racing and track and stuff. The second isn't really walkable and
you'll see the difference immediately. Nothing confusing about it,
really, except the name. SPDs are recessed enough in the shoe that you
can actually make a shoe where the cleat never touches the ground...
granted, such a shoe might not be compatible with some of the more
hybrid-type pedals without a little cutting away of sole. There's a kind
of staggering variety of pedals available for SPDs. I've heard bad things
about the knock-offs and have always had good luck with the Shimano brand
(three pair, so far... all different). Cleats are essentially the same
way: stick with the brand name. They license somewhat promiscuously.
Anyway, that's what most folks use and it's good enough... but it's a bit
like buying into the monopoly... then again, it's also can be done cheap
and works Just Fine.
<URL: http://www.shimano.com/ >

eyagerusenet@chartermi.net

In rec.bicycles.misc Steve Freides <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote:

> Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
> suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
> in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
> casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
> isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
> while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
> spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

If she likes the frogs keep this in mind. Speedplay in the last year and a
half changed the cleat design for the frogs in order for them to fit more
shoes. Many people have found the new "Frog II" cleat to be much more
difficult to clip into. I don't know if this is going to be an issue for you,
but her old frog cleats will still work with the new frog pedals. Compared to
the frogs not many other pedals on the market have nearly as much
float. SPDs have just a few degrees of float and the spring tension tends to
not allow the foot to rotate much.

Any pedal system that requires a road shoe will not be suitable as non
recessed cleats and hard plastic soles are horrible to walk on for all but
the shortest distances. That includes speedplay X2's, Look, and Shimano
SPD-R/SPD-SL.

Budgetwise SPD and it's many clones are the cheapest, as are mountain bike
shoes.


--
---
Eric Yagerlener
remove "usenet" from email address to reply

Eagle Jackson

Why not just get Frogs? If the friend doesn't like them, you can buy
them from him/her.

Peter Storey

"Steve Freides" <steve@fridayscomputer.com> wrote in message news:<2gquljF5oftrU1@uni-berlin.de>...
> A friend is taking her bike in for an overhaul and, after seeing how
> much my wife and I like our Speedplay Frogs, is also interested in
> getting a "clipless" pedal system, which will be the first time for her.
>
> Is there an comparison of the various types of pedal systems out there
> suitable for the casual cyclotourist? My wife found SPD's hard to get
> in and out of but loves Frogs. The type of riding is nothing more than
> casual day trips, so being able to walk around is important. Money
> isn't particularly an issue except that she doesn't ride a lot and,
> while she owns a reasonably good enthusiast bike, it would be silly to
> spend several hundred dollars on shoes and pedals for her.

Steve,

My take is as follows:

SPD is cheapest and ubiquitous. The competing systems have their
virtues, but there's no point paying for what you don't need. You'll
find SPD pedals for as low as $40-50 a pair; you'll pay at least $80
if not $120 for any of the others.

Time ATAC is better for clearing mud and snow. If your friend is
staying mostly onroad (true?), this probably doesn't matter. I have
heard that they are both easier and harder to get into than SPD.
Hmmm. Depending on model, Times may have more float, if float is an
issue.

Eggbeaters' 4-sided entry probably is easier to get into for an uphill
start on tricky singletrack or with four full panniers. But, for your
friend's purposes, double-sided stomp-on SPDs are likely easy enough
to get into.

Frogs have "unlimited" float. Great if you need it. Expensive if you
don't.

I have the single-sided A515 SPDs on two bikes and like them a lot.
For me, kicking the pedal over is no big deal, but I grew up in the
toeclip era. Most people prefer double-sided pedals for ease of
entry, whether on MTBs or on road bikes.

Best Regards,

Peter Storey

LGF

r15757@aol.com (R15757) wrote in message news:<20040517114953.07718.00000665@mb-m24.aol.com>...
> Steve Freides wrote:
>
>
> << Thank you. Perhaps I need to clarify - my friend is going to get either
> SPD's, Frogs, or similar - I'm looking for something in writing that
> will explain the differences to her. She has definitely decided to go
> with a modern clipless pedal system, one that supports a recessed cleat.
> The question is only which one. >>
>
>
> I recommend the Time mtb pedals. Get the cheapest model, it is just the same as
> the expensive model except the pedal body is made of different material. These
> pedals cost a little more, but they are the simplest, most rugged, longest
> lasting, easiest to use, require no adjustment, work flawlessly in mud and ice,
> generally trouble-free piece of equipment. Which can NOT be said of cheap SPD
> pedals.
>

I'd never recommend cheap pedals! I agree with your comments on Time
pedals. One further advantage of the Time ATAC system is that they, in
common with their road pedals, provide lateral float.

LGF