US Postal not seeing value to sponsorship... why?

Ewoud Dronkert

On Sun, 25 Apr 2004 14:18:34 -0500, Carl Sundquist wrote:
> "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Three or four.
>
> You don't know how many countries you've lived in?

Maybe one of them was Canada.

Sam

"Ewoud Dronkert" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:u80n805fc5ircd3do20aojjsbk83qel87e@4ax.com...
> On 24 Apr 2004 23:37:20 -0800, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
> > The issue with USPS is
> > probably partly caused by the sponsorship audit and partly
> > because USPS is really a Europe-based team.
>
> About Europe; I don't think so. 90% of Americans know Lance Armstrong,
> that's enough exposure. I think it's a question of added value of
> another year or years of sponsorship after (already) 5 years of striking
> gold.

Just because people know about USPS does not mean they are getting more
business. I have not mailed much of anything over the past 2 years. It is
not like I am thinking "Man I am going to write more letters and pay more
bills via snail mail to support USPS." The intent (at least stated before)
was to get into the Euro overnight market. Perhaps the sponsorship money is
not justified. That is fine; companies come and go. Plus I am sure that
with Lance's post 2004 career in question (does he retire?) it might be a
good time to pull out.

Tom Kunich

"Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
news:108o3ofbdgd9fe9@corp.supernews.com...
>
> You don't know how many countries you've lived in?

Hell no! Is there any reason I should? Letmesee, Canada which doesn't count,
Guam likewise, Japan and Thailand. Traveled to Mexico, Switzerland and
France. And if I ever get the urge to travel anymore it will be in the good
old USA which has enough cultural diversity for me and less poisonous water.

Tom Kunich

Sam, US Postal cost about half of what other freight organizations charge.
$28 to ship a bare frame in a box UPS and $14 Postal. I shipped a guitar
from a UPS Store and it cost me $85 two week delivery and they offered two
day delivery at - get this - $300!!!!! US Postal is Boss.


"Sam" <marathonman@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:SaWic.12226$e4.2720@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Ewoud Dronkert" <me@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:u80n805fc5ircd3do20aojjsbk83qel87e@4ax.com...
> > On 24 Apr 2004 23:37:20 -0800, Benjamin Weiner wrote:
> > > The issue with USPS is
> > > probably partly caused by the sponsorship audit and partly
> > > because USPS is really a Europe-based team.
> >
> > About Europe; I don't think so. 90% of Americans know Lance Armstrong,
> > that's enough exposure. I think it's a question of added value of
> > another year or years of sponsorship after (already) 5 years of striking
> > gold.
>
> Just because people know about USPS does not mean they are getting more
> business. I have not mailed much of anything over the past 2 years. It
is
> not like I am thinking "Man I am going to write more letters and pay more
> bills via snail mail to support USPS." The intent (at least stated
before)
> was to get into the Euro overnight market. Perhaps the sponsorship money
is
> not justified. That is fine; companies come and go. Plus I am sure that
> with Lance's post 2004 career in question (does he retire?) it might be a
> good time to pull out.
>
>

Tom Paterson

>From: "Steven L. Sheffield"
(Tom Kunich wrote):

>>And Pro Bike Kit sends me stuff via US >>Postal and I've gotten it from
England
>> in two days - normal mail.

(S.S. replied):

>Actually, if they are sending it from the UK, they are sending it Royal
>Mail, which is then delivered by US mail once it's in the States.
>
>But, since Probikekit.com has US warehouse/shipping facilities, if the
>stamps are American, it actually shipped in 2-days from within the good old
>US of A

Total Cycling, Ireland, sends things Fed Ex, two day delivery from Ireland.

FWIW, the bike race sponsorship has been a real morale boost to the USPS
workers. Given that "going Postal" has entered the vocab, not a bad thing for a
small part of the overall budget.

The attacks on sponsorship are part of an ongoing effort to dismantle the USPS
so that private persons can make big bucks doing a lousy job of delivering your
mail. Compare to the airlines, before/after deregulation for an indication of
what is in store. Opinion, also true. Thanks. --TP

Tom Kunich

"Tom Paterson" <dustoyevsky@aol.comnospam> wrote in message
news:20040425201846.25970.00000327@mb-m29.aol.com...
> >From: "Steven L. Sheffield"
> (Tom Kunich wrote):
>
> >>And Pro Bike Kit sends me stuff via US >>Postal and I've gotten it from
> England
> >> in two days - normal mail.
>
> (S.S. replied):
>
> >Actually, if they are sending it from the UK, they are sending it Royal
> >Mail, which is then delivered by US mail once it's in the States.
> >
> >But, since Probikekit.com has US warehouse/shipping facilities, if the
> >stamps are American, it actually shipped in 2-days from within the good
old
> >US of A
>
> Total Cycling, Ireland, sends things Fed Ex, two day delivery from
Ireland.

Which, BTW, is a great place to buy.

> FWIW, the bike race sponsorship has been a real morale boost to the USPS
> workers. Given that "going Postal" has entered the vocab, not a bad thing
for a
> small part of the overall budget.

They tell me that the morale boost of having a winning team that makes the
USPS look good has greatly reduced the stress and strains. Sick time was WAY
down and medical payments for all sorts of psychological stuff was also
down. They could easily save the cost of the team just in days off.

> The attacks on sponsorship are part of an ongoing effort to dismantle the
USPS
> so that private persons can make big bucks doing a lousy job of delivering
your
> mail. Compare to the airlines, before/after deregulation for an indication
of
> what is in store. Opinion, also true. Thanks. --TP

Well stated Tom. Is there any doubt that the big three shippers don't want
that business?

stabile

"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yuYic.9338$eZ5.4773@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:108o3ofbdgd9fe9@corp.supernews.com...
>>
>> You don't know how many countries you've lived in?
>
> Hell no! Is there any reason I should? Letmesee, Canada which doesn't
> count,
> Guam likewise, Japan and Thailand. Traveled to Mexico, Switzerland and
> France. And if I ever get the urge to travel anymore it will be in the
> good
> old USA which has enough cultural diversity for me and less poisonous
> water.

Tom:

I lost your mother's 900 number, please post it again!

I like Lance very, very much.

Thanks,

Tony
>
>

Stewart Fleming

Tom Paterson wrote:

> Total Cycling, Ireland, sends things Fed Ex, two day delivery from Ireland.

Fed Ex have a hub in Roissy in France. UPS has a major hub in Shannon
in Ireland. Hub and spoke works well for courier companies.

> FWIW, the bike race sponsorship has been a real morale boost to the USPS
> workers. Given that "going Postal" has entered the vocab, not a bad thing for a
> small part of the overall budget.

"Going Postal" was already in the vocab, but for different reasons.

hold my beer and watch this...

Tom,

If the USPS is so great, then why are you forbidden (by Federal Law, no
less) from competing with them for non-parcel delivery?

Brian


"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3WFic.11027$e4.10420@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> "Carl Sundquist" <carlsun@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:108m4nhk0ivgn92@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "hold my beer and watch this..." <trdina@dejazzd.com> wrote in message
> > news:m-WdnU26UMExkxbdRVn-sQ@dejazzd.com...
> > > Who cares?
> > >
> > > Maybe they'll spend the money on improving service (but I doubt it).
> > >
> >
> > Would you be satisfied with a 0.00001% improvement?
>
> I always get a delight out of comments like Trdina's. As if he had the
> vaguest clue what he was talking about. US Postals system delivers more
> reliably than any other postal service in the world and I think for about
> half the price. For the last couple of years they've been making money
> instead of losing it.
>
> Now if Trdina could be half the winner than US Postal is he wouldn't have
to
> since to fighting in a ring with some other muttonhead.
>
>

Maybe USPS wants to pull out before Lance starts loosing? Lets say he wins
a sixth... I doubt he can pull a seventh. In many peoples eyes, especially
in a sport like cycling, second place is first looser. Why would they want
to sponsor a loosing team?

"Mike Jacoubowsky/Chain Reaction Bicycles" <MikeJ@ChainReaction.com> wrote
in message news:mDDic.55865$HE5.44750@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...
> I may have a bit of the puzzle figured out. On the surface, we're all
> thinkin' geez, look at all the magazine covers, TV shows etc with US
Postal
> (ok, more specifically Lance representing US Postal). $8 million/year
seems
> like a bargain! But then think about the type of guy who makes the
> decisions on high-end sponsorship/marketing. They're used to spending
> $1500+ for great seats at a tennis tournament or basketball game. They
> associate high-end sports with extreme exclusivity (with very high prices)
> for the elite spectator. But for cycling? The best seats in the house
> might be miles from nowhere, 3/4 of the way up a mountain pass that you
have
> to camp out or ride or walk for hours to get to.
>
> Cycling is, in a way, a sport for the common man. Certainly nothing that
a
> CEO would brag about having ringside seats to watch.
>
> I'm actually amazed we get the support (at the Division I level) that we
do!
>
> --Mike Jacoubowsky
> Chain Reaction Bicycles
> www.ChainReaction.com
> IMBA, BikesBelong, NBDA member
>
>

Tom Paterson

>From: "Tom Kunich"

>They tell me that the morale boost of having a winning team that makes the
>USPS look good has greatly reduced the stress and strains. Sick time was WAY
>down and medical payments for all sorts of psychological stuff was also
>down. They could easily save the cost of the team just in days off.

I didn't go that far with it. I've posted before about folks in one substation
being forbidden to hang USPS bike team posters. *What's up with that?*
(Deliberately oppressive management style?) Make a Lance reference, get a
smile. Happened in Houston, too. It's a "pride in service" thing. "Delivering
the mail".

(I noted):

>> The attacks on sponsorship are part of an ongoing effort to dismantle the
>USPS
>> so that private persons can make big bucks doing a lousy job of delivering
>your
>> mail. Compare to the airlines, before/after deregulation for an indication
>of
>> what is in store.

(T.K. returned):

>Well stated Tom. Is there any doubt that the big three shippers don't want
>that business?

Them and a host of scalawags besides. I guess you have to have flown back in
the 60's and 70's to have a perspective. It's a pride in service thing.

I have a "conservative" friend who lives on some sort of Star route. We were
discussing this issue. He had to admit that seeing his mail arrive in a dirty
pickup truck, handled by a slovenly, non-uniformed "postal employee" did not
exactly inspire him with confidence or provide any sort of warm, friendly
feelings toward total privatization of letter mail delivery. Goes to
accountability (however illusional) and pride in service.

Good morning, and thank you, Mr. Kunich. --TP

jim gravity

"Michael" <mdw3@nospam.cornell.edu> wrote in message >
> Microsoft would be a great sponsor. If people hate you for your success
> in athletics, then you're doing ok, IMO.
>
> M.

-------"presented by Microsoft and AMD"...That would be a real slap in
the face to Intel.

Michael

"jim gravity" <jim_gravity@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:febcdd69.0404260728.42d52deb@posting.google.com...
> "Michael" <mdw3@nospam.cornell.edu> wrote in message >
> > Microsoft would be a great sponsor. If people hate you for your success
> > in athletics, then you're doing ok, IMO.
> >
> > M.
>
> -------"presented by Microsoft and AMD"...That would be a real slap in
> the face to Intel.

Re-check: "success in athletics" -- not business.

Of course, people who are successful in athletics can be disliked because
of their attitude. But no one cares about your attitude of you're no good.

M.

Ryan Cousineau

In article <tNOdnTuqHtRFTBHdRVn-tA@dejazzd.com>,
"hold my beer and watch this..." <trdina@dejazzd.com> wrote:

> Tom,
>
> If the USPS is so great, then why are you forbidden (by Federal Law, no
> less) from competing with them for non-parcel delivery?
>
> Brian

USPS, like virtually all national postal services, got a monopoly
because there's an explicit bargain there: on one hand, they get the
exclusive contract. On the other hand, they must provide daily mail
service to every address in the country, even the unprofitably distant
ones.

If you want to think of this in a strictly libertarian way, this
monopoly screws NYC customers out of having competitive mail services
priced at what they cost, and spends that subsidy from the New Yorkers
to give Montana a postal service that is cheaper and probably more
frequent than a free market would offer.

Postal services used to be vital national links, since they were at one
time the only way of communicating over long distances (and even with
the advent of the telegraph and telephone, the only cheap way), and
there was little or no competition for their parcel delivery services
either.

It may be a different world now, and there is an argument there.

ObBike: I think USPS can probably make a very good case that its
bike-team sponsorship has been a good deal in terms of publicity and
advertising (sports sponsorships usually cost less per eyeball than
mounting a comparable TV ad campaign), even when you consider that their
European sales must be minimal or nothing.

I think the confusion is that they could probably reach their market
more efficiently by sponsoring a NASCAR team, and that there must be
companies with transatlantic business that would better benefit from the
kind of exposure USPS is currently buying (Nike and Berry Floor strike
me as obvious examples that have already signed on, but as others have
mentioned, tech companies might be a reasonable fit, too.

I am sure that USPS or no, Lance's team will never spend more than one
off-season month without a title sponsor, keeping in mind that his
career is probably only going to last for a year or two more, unless he
prolongs it by suddenly switching to one-day races or taking time to go
for the hour record.

As for the rest of USPS/Berry Floor, they're still a monstrous team.
Note that they leave their Texan at home for the Vuelta, but have still
won it twice. If Bruyneel can keep the rest of the team together and
sign the right rider or two, they could probably have a great year doing
the Pro Tour.

--
Ryan Cousineau, rcousine@sfu.ca http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/
President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club