Stopping quickly with a fixed gear without doing a header

Rick Onanian

On 21 Apr 2004 21:14:45 -0700, papercut@myway.com (papercut) wrote:
>In real world situations, I can't envision braking just hard enough
>that the rear wheel is about to lift off the ground (but no more)
>intentionally and controllably. Such situations where one *must* stop
>that quickly usually seem to happen much too suddenly to brake in such
>a controlled manner.

It's not hard. Your mind (should) speed up to process emergencies
like that, at least at an unconscious level. When I was test-riding
the road bike that I later bought, I was going downhill doing
probably 30 or 35 mph when a car pulled out of a sidestreet very
fast; I braked so hard that the rear of the bike got very squirrely.

I know the bike had more brake available, and I know I was panicked,
but something deep in my usually slow-thinking* brain was up to the
task of limiting my brake force when I felt the rear unweight.

* Slow, but deep thought
--
Rick Onanian

Qui si parla Campagnolo

prekow-<< Hi fellows. I was wondering if you fixed gear riders can tell me how
you
stop your bikes in a panic situation without launching yourselves over the
handlebars as once happened to me when a kid made an illegal left hand turn
>><BR><BR>

Butt way back(over the end of the saddle), lots of brake and use der legs to
stop, trackie style...

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Mark Hickey

Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> wrote:

>On 21 Apr 2004 21:14:45 -0700, papercut@myway.com (papercut) wrote:
>>In real world situations, I can't envision braking just hard enough
>>that the rear wheel is about to lift off the ground (but no more)
>>intentionally and controllably. Such situations where one *must* stop
>>that quickly usually seem to happen much too suddenly to brake in such
>>a controlled manner.
>
>It's not hard. Your mind (should) speed up to process emergencies
>like that, at least at an unconscious level. When I was test-riding
>the road bike that I later bought, I was going downhill doing
>probably 30 or 35 mph when a car pulled out of a sidestreet very
>fast; I braked so hard that the rear of the bike got very squirrely.
>
>I know the bike had more brake available, and I know I was panicked,
>but something deep in my usually slow-thinking* brain was up to the
>task of limiting my brake force when I felt the rear unweight.
>
>* Slow, but deep thought

I have a lot of that... ;-)

I think the ability to brake at the threshold is one that you develop
by doing it (it's a good idea to practice - you don't want your first
maximal braking stop to be one that is necessary to keep you from
having dental reconstructive surgery). The more you do it, the more
it becomes a kind of "muscle memory" thing - you'll do it
instinctively without contemplating (slowly and deeply) the relative
altitude of your rear wheel. I'll regularly slide back off the saddle
and brake at the last possible moment at red lights or stop signs to
"keep the feeling fresh".

I've found that riding off-road (especially in steep terrain) makes it
easier to practice this skill. There was one hill I would regularly
lift my rear wheel on, setting up for a tight corner. I never went
into the corner thinking "I think I'll lift my rear wheel", but just
learned to delay braking to the point that's what was necessary to
make the corner.

Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
http://www.habcycles.com
Home of the $695 ti frame

G.T.

"Vrishni Vibhuti" <vrishni_vibhuti@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6db9c166.0404212340.1d3f7dbe@posting.google.com...
> Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote about skidding the front
wheel:
>
> > was dry but there was a bit of loose grit on it. I've also done it on
> > completely clean dry asphalt and on wet smooth asphalt. Grabbing a
>
> You're lying.

Why is he lying? Just because you don't know how to get far enough back on
the bike to do it?

Greg

Benjamin Lewis

G. T. wrote:

> "Vrishni Vibhuti" <vrishni_vibhuti@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote about skidding the front
> wheel:
>>
>>> was dry but there was a bit of loose grit on it. I've also done it on
>>> completely clean dry asphalt and on wet smooth asphalt. Grabbing a
>>
>> You're lying.
>
> Why is he lying? Just because you don't know how to get far enough back
> on the bike to do it?

I can't do it even with well loaded rear panniers, even though this gives
me a much lower centre of gravity than is achievable by moving back off the
saddle.

I don't think this means he was lying, though -- especially since I know
nothing about his bike. I just know that for me, on any of my bikes,
geometry rather than traction is always the limiting factor on non-slippery
surfaces.

--
Benjamin Lewis

Seeing is deceiving. It's eating that's believing.
-- James Thurber

A Muzi

>>>"Peter" wrote:
>>>Hi fellows. I was wondering if you fixed gear riders can tell me how you
>>>stop your bikes in a panic situation without launching yourselves over the
>>>handlebars as once happened to me when a kid made an illegal left hand turn
>>>onto a one way arterial road.

> In article <40868505.9060700@sheldonbrown.com>,
> Sheldon Brown <CaptBike@sheldonbrown.com> wrote:
>>You apply the front brake so hard that the rear wheel just about lifts
>>off. This is the shortest that you can stop any bike of normal
>>geometry, fixed gear _or_ coastie.
>>The advantage of a fixie for this is that the pedals give you a better
>>feel for what's happening to rear wheel traction than you'll get with a
>>coastie.
>>That's the reason fixers are better in traffic and on slippery surfaces.
>>Sometimes you might actually lift the rear wheel off a tiny bit.

Paul Southworth wrote:
> This is a good thing?? Sounds like a lot of risk when one can
> simply install a rear caliper. When braking you want maximum
> friction against the road. When the wheel lifts off, you get zero
> friction against the road, and the braking power of your feet on the
> cranks is likewise zero.
>
I think it _is_ a good thing. If you haven't lifted the rear
wheel a tad, you left some front brake capacity on the
table. At those decelerations, about the only thing you do
with the rear is skid.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

Rick Onanian

On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 06:53:58 -0700, Mark Hickey <mark@habcycles.com>
wrote:
>>I know the bike had more brake available, and I know I was panicked,
>>but something deep in my usually slow-thinking* brain was up to the
>>task of limiting my brake force when I felt the rear unweight.
>
>I think the ability to brake at the threshold is one that you develop
>by doing it (it's a good idea to practice - you don't want your first
....
>I've found that riding off-road (especially in steep terrain) makes it
>easier to practice this skill.

When I bought that bike, it was near the end of a very good mountain
biking season; I had a lot of off-road miles and I had gotten
reasonably good at the technical stuff. That might explain why I
braked so well even on an unfamiliar bike in an unfamiliar situation
in unfamiliar territory...

All last year I didn't ride off-road. I went tonight, and was awful.
--
Rick Onanian

Keeper of the Mighty Macaulay

on 4/21/04 7:12 AM, Peter asserted:

> Hi fellows. I was wondering if you fixed gear riders can tell me how you
> stop your bikes in a panic situation without launching yourselves over the
> handlebars as once happened to me when a kid made an illegal left hand turn
> onto a one way arterial road.

Learn to skid turn. Lock up the rear wheel, lean into the turn, either to
get parallel in the same direction of the turning car or just enough to get
by it on the other side. I'm assuming you mean the car was coming toward
you, not that you were riding on the left side of traffic- if the former,
then just skid turn inside the radius of the car.

This is not a stopping maneuver, BTW, it's an avoidance maneuver. Given the
width of the car + length of your bike, there's only about 10ftx2ft of space
you don't want to be in, ie the space where bike and car make contact-
anywhere else is safe.

Seng

David Damerell

G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>"Vrishni Vibhuti" <vrishni_vibhuti@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>Zog The Undeniable <hrothgar19@yahoo.com> wrote about skidding the front
>>>was dry but there was a bit of loose grit on it. I've also done it on
>>>completely clean dry asphalt and on wet smooth asphalt. Grabbing a
>>You're lying.
>Why is he lying? Just because you don't know how to get far enough back on
>the bike to do it?

That's still a red herring; a tourer with laden rear panniers has a CoG
still further back and down.
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> flcl?

Martin Levac

www.fixedgeargallery.com

Lots of links inside.


ML

suzyj

Originally posted by Sheldon Brown:

> The advantage of a fixie for this is that the pedals give you a better
> feel for what's happening to rear wheel traction than you'll get with
> a coastie.

> That's the reason fixers are better in traffic and on slippery
> surfaces.

I dispute that fixed bikes are able to stop quicker than free ones.

When I stop my free bike quickly, I'm able to slide my bum off the back
of the seat, pushing my weight back, and thus increasing the maximum
braking torque that can be applied without lifting the rear wheel
excessively.

However on my fixed gear bike, when I want to stop quickly I have to
continue pedalling, and I'm yet to work out how to do this while pushing
my weight back significantly.

I guess I could always brake enough to get the rear wheel off the
ground, then stop pedalling and push myself backward off the seat, but
fear I lack the coordination...

Regards,

Suzy



--