Wheel-building gotcha???

Zilla

I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my Bontrager
Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this before but am
eager to learn...

--
- Zilla
Cary, NC
(Remove XSPAM)

Ken

"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:RIGdc.4194$Yw5.1039
@bignews4.bellsouth.net:
> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> does the "art" come into play?

Lacing a wheel is easy. Getting it evenly tensioned and true takes a lot of
patience.

William Holiday

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 00:21:51 +0000, Ken <no@spam.no> wrote:

<"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in news:RIGdc.4194$Yw5.1039
<@bignews4.bellsouth.net:
<> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
<> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
<> does the "art" come into play?
<
<Lacing a wheel is easy. Getting it evenly tensioned and true takes a lot of
<patience.

Maybe the gotcha is when you realize that you should probably untension and
start over rather than keep looking for that ultimate quarter turn that brings
all that wobble and elipse into true. It took me about three re-tries my first
time to get a decent wheel built and it's not easy to make that decision to
begin-again. I'd make sure to oil the nipples, a std instruction, and take my
time like Ken said.

(Pete Cresswell)

RE/
>But what is the #1 "gotcha"

For me, it's been getting the right length spokes.
--
PeteCresswell

remove the polite word to reply

My recommendations as a builder of just 3-4 wheels

1) Get advice from expert as to best cross pattern ( 2x, 3x etc)
2) Don't mail order the spokes, better to buy from someone that sees
the hub and rim.
3) right from the start count turns as you screw on nipples, then you
have beginning tension roughly equal.
4) continue going around turning each 3 , then 2 ,then 1 or whatever
until it looks close.
5) when you pluck the spokes if you have any musical experience you
can hear the pitch which closely reflects the tension, each tone
produced by plusking should be very,very close for all spokes on one
side.

; of course on the rear wheel the drive side tension is much higher.

Bruni

Two small gotcha's: when the stand indicates a runout, pluck two or more
adjacent spokes and hit the lower pitched one. When turning nipples, back
turn afterwards to elimilate windup- you can see this in oval or blades or
by a permanent marker line on the spoke. this makes for less popping and
twanging when riding which is that stored torque unwinding.
Tom

--
Bruni Bicycles
"Where art meets science"
brunibicycles.com
410.426.3420
Nigel Grinter <ngrinter@aol.com> wrote in message
news:70d994f4.0404100541.26ce676d@posting.google.com...
> "Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:<RIGdc.4194$Yw5.1039@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
> > I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
> > exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> > does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my Bontrager
> > Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this before but am
> > eager to learn...
>
> I don't know about 'art', but the procedures to properly lace a wheel
> and bring it near to optimal tension and trueness are straightforward
> and can be followed by any literate person with a grain of patience.
> From then onwards, because the preceding steps progress quite fast, it
> is perhaps hard to remember as you take the wheel towards that elusive
> perfection, that small is beautiful when it comes to making the final
> adjustments.
>
> Initially, to get the wheel roughly round and true you are making
> adjustments in half= and even full=turn increments to groups of
> several spokes. Later in the process, it may be as little as one
> eighth of a turn made on just one or two spokes. Where I have had to
> say 'To hell with it' and slacken off the entire wheel to begin over,
> it is almost always because I have tried to rush the last steps,
> making a few big adjustments where several smaller ones are needed.
>
> The second most likely cause of having to start over is when at least
> one parameter - lateral trueness, roundness, dish or even-tension, is
> overlooked as the wheel nears completion. Each should be repeatedly
> checked in sequence. In particular, I have found that wheels that
> have been perfectly round throughout most the final 'tweaks', decide
> to develop a flat spot or lump in the vicinity of the rim joint just
> as I get tension close to its ultimate value.
>
> I suppose all this is saying is that successful wheelbuilding requires
> patience and there are really no short-cuts.
>
> Nigel Grinter
> Spokesperson
> Well-Spoken Wheels

Qui si parla Campagnolo

zilla-<< what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
does the "art" come into play? >><BR><BR>

Getting the four varibles of the wheel correct all at the same time-tension,
roundness, trueness and dish. THEN stress relieving it well.

Peter Chisholm
Vecchio's Bicicletteria
1833 Pearl St.
Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535
http://www.vecchios.com
"Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

Nigel Grinter

"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<RIGdc.4194$Yw5.1039@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my Bontrager
> Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this before but am
> eager to learn...

I don't know about 'art', but the procedures to properly lace a wheel
and bring it near to optimal tension and trueness are straightforward
and can be followed by any literate person with a grain of patience.
From then onwards, because the preceding steps progress quite fast, it
is perhaps hard to remember as you take the wheel towards that elusive
perfection, that small is beautiful when it comes to making the final
adjustments.

Initially, to get the wheel roughly round and true you are making
adjustments in half= and even full=turn increments to groups of
several spokes. Later in the process, it may be as little as one
eighth of a turn made on just one or two spokes. Where I have had to
say 'To hell with it' and slacken off the entire wheel to begin over,
it is almost always because I have tried to rush the last steps,
making a few big adjustments where several smaller ones are needed.

The second most likely cause of having to start over is when at least
one parameter - lateral trueness, roundness, dish or even-tension, is
overlooked as the wheel nears completion. Each should be repeatedly
checked in sequence. In particular, I have found that wheels that
have been perfectly round throughout most the final 'tweaks', decide
to develop a flat spot or lump in the vicinity of the rim joint just
as I get tension close to its ultimate value.

I suppose all this is saying is that successful wheelbuilding requires
patience and there are really no short-cuts.

Nigel Grinter
Spokesperson
Well-Spoken Wheels

Jeff Wills

"Zilla" <zilla62XSPAM@bellsouth.net> wrote in message news:<RIGdc.4194$Yw5.1039@bignews4.bellsouth.net>...
> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my Bontrager
> Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this before but am
> eager to learn...

"Gotcha"? Learning how much tension a new, high-quality, well-oiled
spoke can really stand. I use this "rule of thumb": when my thumbs are
too tired to hold onto the spoke wrench, the wheel's pretty close to
final tension.

Jeff

Michael Fuhr

drcaggianoplease@hotmail.com (remove the polite word to reply) writes:

> 2) Don't mail order the spokes, better to buy from someone that sees
> the hub and rim.

This contradicts my own experience. I used to ask bike shops for
spoke lengths and they rarely got it right the first time; I now
calculate lengths myself. Even when I tell shops exactly what I
want, it's not unusual for them to give me the wrong spokes: I use
a spoke ruler to check the length and thickness (gauge) of each
spoke and sometimes they're wrong. When buying spokes from a shop,
I now bring the ruler with me. I expect some shops' problems in
this respect are due to employees putting loose spokes in the first
box or bin they find.

I calculate lengths myself using Spocalc, which has been more
reliable than anything a bike shop ever told me. I mail order
spokes from Colorado Cyclist and they've always given me the right
spokes -- I'm guessing that's because they build enough wheels to
be well-stocked and to keep spokes in the right place.

There are surely people and shops who know what they're doing, but
fewer than make that claim; the problem is finding the reliable
ones. I'm better off now that I determine lengths myself and
mail-order spokes from somebody who consistently fills my orders
correctly.

--
Michael Fuhr
http://www.fuhr.org/~mfuhr/

Robert Brown

Zilla wrote:

> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my Bontrager
> Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this before but am
> eager to learn...

Reading and appreciating all the others' posts on gotchas, I wonder why
no one's mentioned . . .

.. . . the frustration of rebuilding on an old rim, when it's slightly
out of whack to begin with. You get it all straight but the spokes all
have radically different pitch. Rides nicely but the feeling in your
stomach says it wasn't good art this time 'round . . .

So - you say "rebuild" your wheel. If you're reusing the rim and if you
know it's in ugly shape, buy a new rim.

I replaced a chewed-up Veloce hub last week. I was making bets against
myself making it work, seeing as the rim is MA3, but I had a go and got
something that was "straight enough to train on".

;-)

YMMV though . . .

/Robert

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Robert Brown writes:

>> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
>> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour?
>> Where does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my
>> Bontrager Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this
>> before but am eager to learn...

> Reading and appreciating all the others' posts on gotchas, I wonder
> why no one's mentioned...

> ... the frustration of rebuilding on an old rim, when it's slightly
> out of whack to begin with. You get it all straight but the spokes
> all have radically different pitch. Rides nicely but the feeling in
> your stomach says it wasn't good art this time 'round...

> So - you say "rebuild" your wheel. If you're reusing the rim and if
> you know it's in ugly shape, buy a new rim.

Not so quickly. I guess that's where some art enters the task.
Manually straighten the wheel before unspoking it or after respoking
it to low tension. Just because a rime is not true should not rule it
out unless it has kinks that cannot be bent back into proper shape. I
have repaired many wheels that were pretzeled, making them good for a
long service life thereafter. This includes uncurling dings in the
rim edge from bottoming on obstacles.

> I replaced a chewed-up Veloce hub last week.

How do you chew up a hub?

> I was making bets against myself making it work, seeing as the rim
> is MA3, but I had a go and got something that was "straight enough
> to train on".

What means "train on"? Is that an allusion to your racing renown or
that your races are so filled with vanity that you dare not be seen
with a wheel that isn't true within a millimeter, once-around. For
what are you training that this wheel will not suffice? Does Lance
know about this?

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Robert Brown writes:

>> I'm not asking how to build a wheel - enough instructional material
>> exists for that. But what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour?
>> Where does the "art" come into play? I'm about to rebuild my
>> Bontrager Race Lite 700c rear wheel, and I've never done this
>> before but am eager to learn...

> Reading and appreciating all the others' posts on gotchas, I wonder
> why no one's mentioned...

> ... the frustration of rebuilding on an old rim, when it's slightly
> out of whack to begin with. You get it all straight but the spokes
> all have radically different pitch. Rides nicely but the feeling in
> your stomach says it wasn't good art this time 'round...

> So - you say "rebuild" your wheel. If you're reusing the rim and if
> you know it's in ugly shape, buy a new rim.

Not so quickly. I guess that's where some art enters the task.
Manually straighten the wheel before unspoking it or after respoking
it to low tension. Just because a rim is not true should not rule it
out unless it has kinks that cannot be bent back into proper shape. I
have repaired many wheels that were pretzeled, making them good for a
long service life thereafter. This includes uncurling dings in the
rim edge from bottoming on obstacles.

> I replaced a chewed-up Veloce hub last week.

How do you chew up a hub?

> I was making bets against myself making it work, seeing as the rim
> is MA3, but I had a go and got something that was "straight enough
> to train on".

What means "train on"? Is that an allusion to your racing renown or
that your races are so filled with vanity that you dare not be seen
with a wheel that isn't true within a millimeter, once-around. For
what are you training that this wheel will not suffice? Does Lance
know about this?

Jobst Brandt
jobst.brandt@stanfordalumni.org

Jeff Wills

vecchio51@aol.com (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<20040410093042.16354.00000118@mb-m03.aol.com>...
> zilla-<< what is the #1 "gotcha" in this endeavour? Where
> does the "art" come into play? >><BR><BR>
>
> Getting the four varibles of the wheel correct all at the same time-tension,
> roundness, trueness and dish. THEN stress relieving it well.
>
> Peter Chisholm

Yep- but it's easier if you attack it this way:
1. round
2. true
3. dish
4. tension & stress relieve

It takes more time to go through several iterations of round-true-dish
while sneaking up on final tension, but it gives you a better feel for
differences in tension between spokes. Time only matters if you're
working in a shop- at home I can build a wheel in a little more than
an hour sitting in my living room.

Jeff