cycling and hearing damage?

Pete Biggs

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

>> Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link
>> between the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent hearing
>> damage? And if so, does anyone know of a practical solution to
>> reduce wind noise while still being alert to traffic?
>
> Matt: Is the noise while cycling really that bad? Curiously, I
> notice silence more than anything.

It's the kind of thing you're so used to that you don't notice it. I
usually wear a balaclava or hat over my ears during the winter months.
Wind noise is highly noticeable when I then occasionally go out with a
naked head. But during the summer, I'm totally oblivious to the noise
after the first couple of rides without hat.

There's probably no scientific evidence yet but I suspect this constant
high frequency noise could damage hearing to some extent. On busy roads,
noise from car tyres and engines is also a worry (fast roads re tyres;
inner cities re engines).

~PB

carlfogel

Anonymous Cowar wrote:
> Matthew Thomas wrote:
> > Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link
> > between the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent
> > hearing damage?
> Do you also ride motorbikes - or did a motorcyclist ask you? I was
> bemused when I first saw your question, but there seem to be a few
> web-pages suggesting motorcyclists might suffer hearing-loss from the
> wind noise.
> One of them also seemed to suggest that wind noise increased
> exponentially with speed (100 dB at 30mph - seemed high to me; 115 at
> 60mph) - which suggests to me that most cyclists are likely to be quite
> safe. Maybe someone here knows differently, though?
> AC



Dear Matt and A.C.,

Street motorcycles are a different kettle of fish than bicycles because
the speeds are much higher and the exhaust noise is added. A typical
bicycle is going to roll at only about 15 to 25 mph, a sedate stroll
for a street motorcycle, and the only engine noise is the panting of
the rider.

Hearing loss from noise is the result of decibel level, or energy, but
this is not actaully a very good measure for this particular situation.

The trouble is that absolute sound energy is usually measured for sounds
at a reasonable distance--five feet away, within a room, inside a car.

This makes sense for normal sounds, but not for what we're calling wind
noise on a bicycle. There is practically no wind noise produced by a
bicycle, as anyone can prove by listening to a bicycle roll past.

The noise that we're talking about is the turbulence as our pointy ears
hit the wind stream at an angle--we can hear it, but no one else can.
It's an absolutely tiny, trivial noise (you'd have to be Dumbo to make
a noise audible to anyone else by turning your head in the wind), but
it's occurring right next to your ear drum. The huge leverage of
proximity is what magnifies the tiny noise of the breeze rustling past
your ear-lobes.

This is why bicycle helmets can make an audible difference, even though
they don't cover our ears. Things may sound different because the helmet
changes the air flow around your head--just as turning your head
slightly to one side or the other will change the noise.

As a rough guide, however, notice that you can easily talk to other
bicycle riders over this noise. It's no worse than standing on the deck
of a ferry boat, enjoying the breeze, and chatting with a friend.

But just as wind drag increases exponentially with speed, so will wind
noise right in a rider's ear increase as speed rises. This is one
reasons why motorcycle fairings are popular--they cut the wind speed and
reduce the noise. But most bicyclists don't reach 50 mph often enough to
worry about this.

The same is true of headphones on planes. The music may be playing, but
they still muffle some of the roar of the engines.

Carl Fogel



--

Carl Fogel

Patrick Hansmeier <phan8ic@despammed.com> wrote in message news:<c53brk$ha5$1@nx6.HRZ.Uni-Dortmund.DE>...
> Matthew Thomas wrote:
>
> > Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link
> > between the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent hearing
> > damage?
>
> Has anyone researched if drivers of cars, let alone lorries or trucks,
> are deafened permanently by the noise of their vehicles?
>
> > And if so, does anyone know of a practical solution to reduce
> > wind noise while still being alert to traffic?
>
> Compared to cyclists, passengers of cars hear virtually nothing when it
> comes to 'alertness to traffic'. Maybe you are bothered personally by
> wind noise, but I don't see a reason why one should really care for this.
> However: A wad of cotton wool will supposedly do the trick for you.
>
> Patrick

Dear Patrick,

Truck drivers do indeed suffer hearing problems, but this
is the result of engine noise, not wind noise. Aircraft and
helicopter pilots have the same problem. High-frequency
hearing loss is common around heavy engines, whether they're
cars, planes, motorcycles, lawn mowers, or boats. You can
often spot victims of this damage--they're the fellows who
keep chatting with you, obviously following every word that
you say, but serenely unconscious that their wrist watch
alarms are emitting high-pitched beeps.

(Whether such fellows are married more often than not is an
ugly side of acoustic research that we decline to delve into.)

A vanishing variant of such damage is sometimes called tractor
ear. Farmers with open tractors tend to steer with one hand on
the wheel while half-turned to look over their shoulders
at the plow behind them. One ear is aimed at the noisy tractor
engine for hours, while the other ear is turned away and shielded,
so these fellows sometimes wear a single hearing aid.

Wind noise alone (the turbulence as the air thrashes around
the complicated shape of the ear) isn't likely to be damaging
until you move up in speed to motorcycles--and add the extra
noise of the motorcycle engine on top of the wind.

Carl Fogel

Jeff Starr

bigmatt888@hotmail.com (Matthew Thomas) wrote in message news:<6c99a27b.0404072049.7e0b2ef@posting.google.com>...
> Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link
> between the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent hearing
> damage? And if so, does anyone know of a practical solution to reduce
> wind noise while still being alert to traffic?
>
> thanks,
> Matt
>
> salsashark88 "at" hotmail "dot" com

Hi, I'm reasonably careful with my hearing, I wear earplugs when I mow
the lawn, but I don't worry about noise levels when I'm riding.

But on the subject of ears, mine do get cold easily. Anything below
the mid 50s with a 10mph wind and I need to wear an earband. Same with
my foot, I'm in booties and full gloves, while some guy rides by
wearing shorts. Is anyone else more bothered by the cold, than their
riding buddies? Personally, I'd rather be warm than cool[fashionable].
Life is Good!
Jeff

William Holiday

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:50:54 GMT, Werehatrack <rault00@earthWEEDSlink.net>
wrote:

<On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 07:30:25 -0400, William Holiday
<<hattertown@yahoo.com> may have said:
<
<>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 05:00:30 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com>
<>wrote:
<>
<><it seems to me that
<><things are quieter when I'm out riding than when I'm in a car.
<>
<>...until you turn off the Tchaikovsky ;-)
<
<But why would you do that?

Wagner ;-0

carlfogel

Matthew Thomas wrote:
> Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link between
> the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent hearing damage?
> And if so, does anyone know of a practical solution to reduce wind noise
> while still being alert to traffic?
> thanks, Matt
> salsashark88 "at" hotmail "dot" com



Dear Matt,

Here's an article with exciting graphs of motorcycle helmet noise:

http://www.msgroup.org/TIP150.html

Points to remember are that the study, such as it is, is about 13 years
old, doesn't seem to address how much of the noise is from wind and how
much from engine, and adds that motorcycle helmets can actually make
wind noise worse--they're much more cumbersome than bicycle helmets.

In any case, the first graph is for 30 mph, well above what most
bicyclists experience (no details on apparent wind speed, such as
heading into a wind). And it shows levels for different helmets around
88 to 98 db, Take away an engine and 5-10 mph speed and things are
likely to drop to under 80 db, what the article suggests for a noisy
restaurant.

Before getting excited about how close 80 db seems to 90 db, keep in
mind that it's a logarithmic scale for bels using decibels (0.1 bel),
meaning that a sound 1 decibel louder is 1.26 times as powerful, so
going up from 80 db to 90 db is far more than a power increase of 1/8th
or 12.5%. It's a ten-fold increase (1 bel), which we would normally
think of as going from 80 to 800.

A dial tone is about 80 db. OSHA and audiologists worry about noises at
around 90 db.

Carl Fogel



--

Fredzep

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:50:13 -0700, Elmo Spam King
<elspammo@bitmine.net> wrote:

>
>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:14:30 -0400, Fredzep wrote:
>> I have wondered this same thing myself particularly after
>> being passed by one of those loud pipes clowns or a truck. My solution
>> is to ride where or when there less traffic or preferably off
>> road(conditions permitting).
>
>How do you get anywhere useful? I mean, mostly, I go to places where
>other people are to socialize, work, trade, or share. Most of those
>places are deep within the motor vehicle infrastructure and see quite a
>bit of traffic (including transit buses and other large service vehicles).
>
>So do you just not go out where other people are or what?
>
>Elmo.

Yeah if I can. I don't ride to get to work or for transportation. It
is my main source of recreation. Everywhere I live is in the in the
MVI but I try to minimalize it. I'm not trying to get any place
useful,I just enjoy riding. If I can I won't ride during rush hour or
I'll ride off road, wherever it is least crowded. That is just my
preferance.

Fredzep

Fredzep

On Fri, 09 Apr 2004 01:40:33 -0400, Fredzep <fredzeppelin@nac.net>
wrote:

>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:50:13 -0700, Elmo Spam King
><elspammo@bitmine.net> wrote:
>
>>
>>On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 02:14:30 -0400, Fredzep wrote:
>>> I have wondered this same thing myself particularly after
>>> being passed by one of those loud pipes clowns or a truck. My solution
>>> is to ride where or when there less traffic or preferably off
>>> road(conditions permitting).
>>
>>How do you get anywhere useful? I mean, mostly, I go to places where
>>other people are to socialize, work, trade, or share. Most of those
>>places are deep within the motor vehicle infrastructure and see quite a
>>bit of traffic (including transit buses and other large service vehicles).
>>
>>So do you just not go out where other people are or what?
>>
>>Elmo.
>
>Yeah if I can. I don't ride to get to work or for transportation. It
>is my main source of recreation. Everywhere I live is in the in the
>MVI but I try to minimalize it. I'm not trying to get any place
>useful,I just enjoy riding. If I can I won't ride during rush hour or
>I'll ride off road, wherever it is least crowded. That is just my
>preferance.
>
>Fredzep

Forgive me I don't have a spellchecker.
Fredzep

dvt

carlfogel wrote:
> The noise that we're talking about is the turbulence as our pointy ears
> hit the wind stream at an angle--we can hear it, but no one else can.
> It's an absolutely tiny, trivial noise (you'd have to be Dumbo to make
> a noise audible to anyone else by turning your head in the wind), but
> it's occurring right next to your ear drum.

You're right on in this part. But the next part is slightly off...

> The huge leverage of
> proximity is what magnifies the tiny noise of the breeze rustling past
> your ear-lobes.

Proximity is a factor. But what makes this turbulence inaudible at
distances of, say, a meter or so? Lack of coherence. In pretty loose
terms, the turbulence makes a bunch of little tiny sound sources. When
your sensor (your ear) is in the middle of those sources, some pressure
fluctuation is sensed as noise. When the sensor is away from those
sources, the lack of coherence in the sources makes them tend to cancel.

That's why a windscreen on a microphone works. A naked microphone out in
the wind has turbulence right near the sensor surface. The wind screen
makes a small difference in the distance from turbulence to the sensor,
but since the sources don't tend to add, it makes a big difference in
the measured pressure fluctuation.

The upshot: if you want to reduce the wind noise experienced while
riding a bicycle, a more aerodynamic head (ear, helmet, etc) might
reduce the turbulence. Failing that, put a little bit of foam over your
ear to push the turbulence a little ways away from your eardrum. Just
don't let Fabrizio see you.

> As a rough guide, however, notice that you can easily talk to other
> bicycle riders over this noise. It's no worse than standing on the deck
> of a ferry boat, enjoying the breeze, and chatting with a friend.

I agree that the wind noise experienced while cycling is rarely strong
enough to pose a health hazard, although I don't have any hard data to
back me up on this claim.

I don't always find conversation easy on a bicycle. It's pretty easy to
hit 30 mph on a descent, and I find that conversation is limited to
shouting at my fellow cyclists at speeds at and above that level. This
may be due to the broad spectrum of wind noise, which creates a pretty
effective mask to vocal communication.

The other clue to this neat little puzzle is observation of cyclists
having a conversation as they ride past. If you stand near a quiet
country road, you can hear cyclists talking loudly from quite a
distance. They are speaking much louder than they would if the masking
of the wind noise were not present. But they are not shouting, as would
probably be necessary if the wind noise were enough to cause potential
damage.

--
Dave
dvt at psu dot edu

(Pete Cresswell)

RE/
>wind noise experienced while cycling is rarely strong
>enough to pose a health hazard,

My biggest problem is that when I'm wearing a helmet, the wind noise masks the
sound of approaching cars....
--
PeteCresswell

Tom Sherman

carlfogel wrote:

> ...
> The same is true of headphones on planes. The music may be playing, but
> they still muffle some of the roar of the engines.

Dear Carl,

Are you referring to open or closed headphones, and with or without
active noise cancellation?

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

Tom Sherman

Mark wrote:

> ...
> Generally, gun shops, and I even think places like Wal-Mart will carry
> units such as these in stock in the sporting dept. I can remember one
> plug that was called "Hearos" Thier range of sophistication can cost
> between a few dollars to perhaps $20-25 for a pair....

There are musician’s earplugs which reduce volume level overall by about
15 dB (compared to about 25 dB for plain cylindrical foam plugs) and
much more evenly with respect to frequency than earplugs intended for
occupational use. These would appear to be a better choice for reducing
noise while cycling while still maintaining enough hearing for safety.

--
Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)

TBGibb

In article <6c99a27b.0404072049.7e0b2ef@posting.google.com>,
bigmatt888@hotmail.com (Matthew Thomas) writes:

>Does anyone know if there is any research that has found a link
>between the wind noise experienced while riding and permanent hearing
>damage? And if so, does anyone know of a practical solution to reduce
>wind noise while still being alert to traffic?

It helps a lot to take the baseball cards off the stays.

Tom Gibb <TBGibb@aol.com>

SmartyPants

does anyone know of a practical solution to reduce wind noise while still
being alert to traffic?

I never tried them while biking, but I find the sponge type inside the ear
noise protectors cut down ambient noise well while only slightly minimizing
voices.