Best way to fix the trail

Chuck W

My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections that
spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In the spring,
that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow right through it
instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local authorities are nice
enough to put out until the ground dries. Of course, now the ground is dry,
so the bridges are being collected back up, leaving me to try and get across
six-inch deep ruts cut in low spots in the trail (it feels like a 300 pound
bouncer is trying to yank the handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer at
all).

I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back off,
but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing something dumb like
leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.

Any pointers?

-Chuck W

Ken in KC

Chuck W wrote:
> My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections
> that spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In the
> spring, that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow right
> through it instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local
> authorities are nice enough to put out until the ground dries. Of
> course, now the ground is dry, so the bridges are being collected back
> up, leaving me to try and get across six-inch deep ruts cut in low spots
> in the trail (it feels like a 300 pound bouncer is trying to yank the
> handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer at all).
> I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back
> off, but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing something
> dumb like leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.
> Any pointers?
> -Chuck W



A couple of years ago, I attended an advocacy conference and wound up
rooming with a trail builder fromthe UK. With the amount of moisture
they receive coupled with their soil, they have developed a fantastic
technique for boggy or low areas on the trail. It isn't easy to do, but
its a very effective proceedure. It may require the assistnace of the
land manager to accomplish:

1. Dig out the bogged spot and place large rocks (boulders, limestone
chunks, etc. Very large). The tops of these large rocks will
eventually become your trail tread, so that will give you some idea
of the depth you'll need to dig out.

2. Once the largest rocks are placed, then begin filling in with
slightly smaller, buut still large rocks to fill in the gaps in the
trail that can't be filled with the largest rocks.

3. Once step #2 is complete, then fill in with smaller fill rock in
order to complete the trail or trail tread.

This approach will allow water to drain through the rocks, but it won't
bog down as is currently is.

This, IMO is the most proper way to fix the problem you've described
based on the information you've provided. There are other solutions but
many of them require ongoing to recurring maintenance.

Hope this helps.

Ken



--

Andrew Thorne

>My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections that
>spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In the spring,
>that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow right through it
>instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local authorities are nice
>enough to put out until the ground dries. Of course, now the ground is dry,
>so the bridges are being collected back up, leaving me to try and get across
>six-inch deep ruts cut in low spots in the trail (it feels like a 300 pound
>bouncer is trying to yank the handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer at
>all).
>
>I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back off,
>but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing something dumb like
>leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.
>
>Any pointers?
>
>-Chuck W

Yup. Join IMBA, as well as your local trail group and organize a workday.
Somebody local likely has experience reparing damage like you've described.

What you shouldn't do is take a shovel and go do something on your own. Trail
maintenance without permission is just another form of vandalism - it often
makes things worse rather than better.

Cheers,

-Andrew

BB

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:01:08 GMT, Ken in KC wrote:

> It may require the assistnace of the land manager to accomplish:

You really shouldn't do any trail manager without the assistance (or at
least authorization) of the land manager.

> 1. Dig out the bogged spot and place large rocks (boulders, limestone
> chunks, etc. Very large). The tops of these large rocks will
> eventually become your trail tread, so that will give you some idea
> of the depth you'll need to dig out.
>
> 2. Once the largest rocks are placed, then begin filling in with
> slightly smaller, buut still large rocks to fill in the gaps in the
> trail that can't be filled with the largest rocks.
>
> 3. Once step #2 is complete, then fill in with smaller fill rock in
> order to complete the trail or trail tread.
>
> This approach will allow water to drain through the rocks, but it won't
> bog down as is currently is.

As it rains pretty much October through May in Oregon, we have a little
experience with rain, too. :-)

I've seen some places where this is done, though I've never seen a case
where they don't get worked into the dirt. Maybe if they got a little
serious with the size of those "boulders", it might.

We have fireroads that have vehicles on them occasionally (maybe a few
times a year), but mostly get a lot of bike & pedestrian traffic. A few
years back, the land managers piled 6-10" rock on the wet sections. The
walkers & inexperienced riders hated it - you could hear them complaining
as they gingerly crossed the loose rock. I liked it - made the fireroad
kind of technical! Here it is a few years later, and there is no evidence
whatsoever of any larger rock. Still, these sections aren't nearly as bad
in the winter and the huge puddles of water are gone, and they dry much
faster.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

bomba

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:15:34 +0000, BB wrote:

>> It may require the assistnace of the land manager to accomplish:
>
> You really shouldn't do any trail manager

Trail managers have feelings too, you know.

--
a.m-b FAQ: http://www.j-harris.net/bike/ambfaq.htm

a.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm

Chuck W

"Ken in KC" <usenet-forum@cyclingforums.com> wrote in message
news:UOddc.110505$3q1.44108@fe28.usenetserver.com...
> Chuck W wrote:
> > My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections
> > that spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In
the
> > spring, that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow
right
> > through it instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local
> > authorities are nice enough to put out until the ground dries. Of
> > course, now the ground is dry, so the bridges are being collected back
> > up, leaving me to try and get across six-inch deep ruts cut in low
spots
> > in the trail (it feels like a 300 pound bouncer is trying to yank the
> > handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer at all).
> > I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back
> > off, but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing
something
> > dumb like leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.
> > Any pointers?
> > -Chuck W
>
>
>
> A couple of years ago, I attended an advocacy conference and wound up
> rooming with a trail builder fromthe UK. With the amount of moisture
> they receive coupled with their soil, they have developed a fantastic
> technique for boggy or low areas on the trail. It isn't easy to do, but
> its a very effective proceedure. It may require the assistnace of the
> land manager to accomplish:
>
> 1. Dig out the bogged spot and place large rocks (boulders, limestone
> chunks, etc. Very large). The tops of these large rocks will
> eventually become your trail tread, so that will give you some idea
> of the depth you'll need to dig out.
>
> 2. Once the largest rocks are placed, then begin filling in with
> slightly smaller, buut still large rocks to fill in the gaps in the
> trail that can't be filled with the largest rocks.
>
> 3. Once step #2 is complete, then fill in with smaller fill rock in
> order to complete the trail or trail tread.
>
> This approach will allow water to drain through the rocks, but it won't
> bog down as is currently is.
>
> This, IMO is the most proper way to fix the problem you've described
> based on the information you've provided. There are other solutions but
> many of them require ongoing to recurring maintenance.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Ken
>


Sounds like a good idea. I'll definitely not be out there without paperwork
from the folks that run the place (it's actually a military installation,
anyway). I was thinking to just ask them to leave the bridges down, but at
least several ya-hoos ride right around them anyway. I saw this morning
where people have begun short-siding some of the turns entirely where this
has happened, blazing new little trails of their own in the process.

BB

On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 17:34:57 +0200, bomba wrote:
> On Thu, 08 Apr 2004 15:15:34 +0000, BB wrote:
>
>>> It may require the assistnace of the land manager to accomplish:
>>
>> You really shouldn't do any trail manager
>
> Trail managers have feelings too, you know.

LOL! Freudian slip?

I never see park rangers in the same light since watching "Broken Arrow".
:-)

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

JD

"Chuck W" <cwiley101@comcast.spamdeath.net> wrote in message news:<tYednUl_e5d5_ujdRVn-hg@comcast.com>...
> My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections that
> spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In the spring,
> that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow right through it
> instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local authorities are nice
> enough to put out until the ground dries. Of course, now the ground is dry,
> so the bridges are being collected back up, leaving me to try and get across
> six-inch deep ruts cut in low spots in the trail (it feels like a 300 pound
> bouncer is trying to yank the handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer at
> all).
>
> I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back off,
> but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing something dumb like
> leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.
>
> Any pointers?
>
> -Chuck W

Yeah, use the shovel on the barneys who jacked the trail up.

JD

Jon Bond

"JD" <dij@usafcct.com> wrote in message
news:ebf270c9.0404080939.1922d12@posting.google.com...
> "Chuck W" <cwiley101@comcast.spamdeath.net> wrote in message
news:<tYednUl_e5d5_ujdRVn-hg@comcast.com>...
> > My trails around here, while long and fast, have occasional sections
that
> > spend the entire winter bogged over or underwater entirely. In the
spring,
> > that means wet mud in spots that ruts out when asses plow right through
it
> > instead of taking the wooden plank bridges the local authorities are
nice
> > enough to put out until the ground dries. Of course, now the ground is
dry,
> > so the bridges are being collected back up, leaving me to try and get
across
> > six-inch deep ruts cut in low spots in the trail (it feels like a 300
pound
> > bouncer is trying to yank the handlebar out of my hands if I mis-steer
at
> > all).
> >
> > I'm of a mind to go out there with my shovel and level that crap back
off,
> > but I don't want to jack up the trail even more by doing something dumb
like
> > leaving soft spots or leveling it off wrong or what not.
> >
> > Any pointers?
> >
> > -Chuck W
>
> Yeah, use the shovel on the barneys who jacked the trail up.
>
> JD

Amen.

Jon Bond
beautiful day, dry trails, but they don't open for another week. Bah!

S o r n i

BB wrote:

> I never see park rangers in the same light since watching "Broken
> Arrow". :-)

There's one here in SD named Athena -- kid you not -- and she's gorgeous.

Bill "brown goddess? (ain't no green in these parts)" S.

slartibartfast

> Jon Bond
> beautiful day, dry trails, but they don't open for another week. Bah!
>

You need to get out of the City and head up to Harold Parker SF, Jon. It's
open all year. the trails are great right now, I was out last weekend and
had a ball.

Jason

Jon Bond

"slartibartfast" <building@fjords.com> wrote in message
news:c546ck$a7u$1@news.fas.harvard.edu...
> > Jon Bond
> > beautiful day, dry trails, but they don't open for another week. Bah!
> >
>
> You need to get out of the City and head up to Harold Parker SF, Jon. It's
> open all year. the trails are great right now, I was out last weekend and
> had a ball.
>
> Jason
>
>

if you want to drive me, I'm there

jon "out for a ride around campus, ty ping in bike gloves" bond

Stephen Baker

Jon Bond says:

>if you want to drive me, I'm there

Travis? Izzat you??

;-P

Ken in KC

Bb wrote:
> You really shouldn't do any trail manager without the assistance (or at
> least authorization) of the land manager.
> As it rains pretty much October through May in Oregon, we have a little
> experience with rain, too. :-)
> I've seen some places where this is done, though I've never seen a case
> where they don't get worked into the dirt. Maybe if they got a little
> serious with the size of those "boulders", it might.
> --
> -BB- To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at
> least)



First, you're correct. I assumed land manager permission. Second, here's
an example of what I'm suggesting:

http://www.imba.com/resources/trail...k_armoring.html

Ken



--