Mountain Biking Injury Report

Mike Vandeman

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:08:21 GMT, Brett Jaffee <NOSPAMjaffee@earthlink.net>
wrote:

..Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in
..news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com:
..
..> http://site37721.dellhost.com/free_...icycling%20Inju
..> ry%20Report%20Oct%20ABC.pdf
..
..I'm not sure what your point is...do you really think mountain bikers think
..their sport is completely safe? I don't know any one who does. As for
..saftey though, would you rather break your collarbone or get killed by a
..car?
..
..Take a look at the list in that study of cyclists who have died during
..races or training...I only see one mountain biker in a list of 32
..fatalities. In addition, Appendix C lists bike related deaths in the
..region...none of them appear to be mountain bike related.

I have heard of several mountain biker deaths. So have you. Don't try to
pretend. Also, they don't just endanger THEMSELVES, of course. They also
endanger all the wildlife and people around them.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:23:45 GMT, "Brian" <dirtdude21@hotmail.com> wrote:

..i'd rather take the risk of wiping out than get hit by a 2000 lb car.

Many mountain bikers have killed themselves. You have your head in the sand!

.."Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
..news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com...
..> Mountain bikers often claim that they mountain bike because riding on the
..road
..> is so dangerous. This study found that mountain biking is TWICE as
..dangerous as
..> road riding. So much for THAT excuse.
..>
..>
..http://site37721.dellhost.com/free_...20Oct%20ABC.pdf
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:40:19 GMT, "Frank Peckham" <fspeck@optonline.net> wrote:

..
.."Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
..news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com...
..> Mountain bikers often claim that they mountain bike because riding on the
..road
..> is so dangerous. This study found that mountain biking is TWICE as
..dangerous as
..> road riding. So much for THAT excuse.
..>
..>
..http://site37721.dellhost.com/free_...20Oct%20ABC.pdf
..> ===
..> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
..> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
..> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
..>
..> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
..
.. For the past 20 yr's, when possible, I have been on the bike 6 days a
..week, 3 days road and 3 days off road. My worst injury on the mt'n bike was
..a fractured rib. That is nothing compared to the injuries from the road
..riding.

You are comparing apples and oranges. What injuries have YOU had on the road?
Besides, you are just one case. One case doesn't prove anything about others.

..Frank

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Mike Vandeman

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:48:46 GMT, Peter <prathman@attbi.com> wrote:

..Frank Peckham wrote:
..> For the past 20 yr's, when possible, I have been on the bike 6 days a
..> week, 3 days road and 3 days off road. My worst injury on the mt'n bike was
..> a fractured rib. That is nothing compared to the injuries from the road
..> riding.
..
..That's a lot worse than anything I've gotten in the last 40 years of road
..riding at about 3 - 6 thousand miles/year.

Me too, over 55 years.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

BB

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:49:12 GMT, Mike Vandeman wrote:

> .It was a survey of roadies, so its "junk science". :-)
> .
> .Lemme see, 89% of the accidents are road, 11% are MTB - so 11/89 > 2?
>
> I guess you didn't read it. A greater percentage of mountain bikers have
> accidents than road bicyclists.

It was the SAME group of roadies, a few of whom had done a little bit of
riding off-road. Why would a group of roadies with little off-road
experience and (a high comfort level with road riding) be an appropriate
sample? Its not, of course. Even if you consider the 18% that did any
meaningful amount of mountain biking, that's a sample size of 15 which is
far too small to be significant. It really is "junk science" as far as
your use of it goes - that's why I'm sure you'll contine to use it.

I've been riding off-road frequently for nine years now, and never had to
see a doctor for anything cycling-related. My riding compadres have never
been seriously injured either. In that same timeframe, I have a roadie
friend who's had his arm broken, and another who spent half a day in a
coma - both experienced road riders hit by cars. As usual, your "data"
never syncs up with reality.

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

BB

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 14:57:20 GMT, Mike Vandeman wrote:

> .That's a lot worse than anything I've gotten in the last 40 years of road
> .riding at about 3 - 6 thousand miles/year.
>
> Me too, over 55 years.

And yet the bunch they interviewed in that survey missed an average of 17
DAYS of work due to injuries. I'd consider that pretty damned dangerous!
Maybe they were just accident-prone. :-)

--
-BB-
To reply to me, drop the attitude (from my e-mail address, at least)

Michael Dart

In news:5o707057bip8qj32an26lf30rina3imfr0@4ax.com,
Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> typed:
> On Sat, 3 Apr 2004 12:15:41 -0500, "Michael Dart"
> <mrdartREMOVE@NOSPAMnewsguy.com> wrote:
>
> .In news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com,
> .Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> typed:
> .I fail to see your point.
>
> The point is that mountain bikers LIE. CONSTANTLY! Thanks for helping
> me prove my case against mountain biking. If mountain bikers are that
> dangerous to THEMSELVES, then they are just as dangerous to other
> people and wildlife, and mountain biking deserves to be banned. You
> have the right to destroy yourself, but not anyone else.
>

In eight years of mountain biking I've never injured another person or
animal.

Mike - pfffftt!!!

Michael Dart

In news:5o707057bip8qj32an26lf30rina3imfr0@4ax.com,
Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> typed:

> .I fail to see your point.
>
> The point is that mountain bikers LIE. CONSTANTLY! Thanks for helping
> me prove my case against mountain biking. If mountain bikers are that
> dangerous to THEMSELVES, then they are just as dangerous to other
> people and wildlife, and mountain biking deserves to be banned. You
> have the right to destroy yourself, but not anyone else.
>

Oh what the hell, BITE ME!

Mike

Brett Jaffee

Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:548070lcmn0l55crs7t3rl12ulade0vvgl@4ax.com:

> I have heard of several mountain biker deaths. So have you. Don't try
> to pretend. Also, they don't just endanger THEMSELVES, of course. They
> also endanger all the wildlife and people around them.

No one said no one has ever died from mountain biking. Same as with road
biking, skiing, football, hockey, etc. But the point is, this is
information from a study that YOU posted!

Brett Jaffee

Mike Vandeman <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in
news:h78070ptetiu1o3iap5hgu901kd9r7rbu7@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 23:23:45 GMT, "Brian" <dirtdude21@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> .i'd rather take the risk of wiping out than get hit by a 2000 lb car.
>
> Many mountain bikers have killed themselves. You have your head in the
> sand!
>

Please show me where did I say they hadn't? Also, please define "many" and
compare it to the number of people killed in road bike incidents. That was
the whole point of your post was it not...to compare the danger of road
biking vs mountain?

Frank Peckham

"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:8d8070d4kkcn4gvthqccuevs12790guh5t@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:40:19 GMT, "Frank Peckham" <fspeck@optonline.net>
wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> .news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com...
> .> Mountain bikers often claim that they mountain bike because riding on
the
> .road
> .> is so dangerous. This study found that mountain biking is TWICE as
> .dangerous as
> .> road riding. So much for THAT excuse.
> .>
> .>
>
..http://site37721.dellhost.com/free_...ling%20Injury%2
0Report%20Oct%20ABC.pdf
> .> ===
> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
> . For the past 20 yr's, when possible, I have been on the bike 6 days a
> .week, 3 days road and 3 days off road. My worst injury on the mt'n bike
was
> .a fractured rib. That is nothing compared to the injuries from the road
> .riding.
>
> You are comparing apples and oranges. What injuries have YOU had on the
road?
> Besides, you are just one case. One case doesn't prove anything about
others.
>
> .Frank
>
> ===
> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
>
> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

gazzer

> > .> Mountain bikers often claim that they mountain bike because riding on
> the road is so dangerous.

Hikers often claim they hike in the countryside because walking on
city streets is so dangerous although I have no proof of this
preposterous claim.

cheers

g

Frank Peckham

"Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:8d8070d4kkcn4gvthqccuevs12790guh5t@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 02:40:19 GMT, "Frank Peckham" <fspeck@optonline.net>
wrote:
>
> .
> ."Mike Vandeman" <mjvande@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> .news:5fmt6057f5ckok4f84r4u1utji2pnahnpt@4ax.com...
> .> Mountain bikers often claim that they mountain bike because riding on
the
> .road
> .> is so dangerous. This study found that mountain biking is TWICE as
> .dangerous as
> .> road riding. So much for THAT excuse.
> .>
> .>
>
..http://site37721.dellhost.com/free_...ling%20Injury%2
0Report%20Oct%20ABC.pdf
> .> ===
> .> I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to
> .> humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
> .> years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)
> .>
> .> http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
> .
> . For the past 20 yr's, when possible, I have been on the bike 6 days a
> .week, 3 days road and 3 days off road. My worst injury on the mt'n bike
was
> .a fractured rib. That is nothing compared to the injuries from the road
> .riding.
>
> You are comparing apples and oranges. What injuries have YOU had on the
road?
> Besides, you are just one case. One case doesn't prove anything about
others.
>
> .I think a lot depends on the type of riding you do.Most of mine has been
with riders training for competition and the rides are often aggressive.Also
they are on roads with a lot of traffic. As to my road injuries there were
many. a fractured hip, both clavicles, a scapula,28 stitches to the face and
four missing teeth and a concussion. Also a couple of hematomas.Most of my
mt'n biking is on winding rooted single track with log jumps and several
drop offs. So the potential for injury is there.I've hit the ground many
times, but the dirt is much more forgiving than pavement.And there are no
trucks or cars. I should have mentioned that my most serious mt'n bike
injury was from hitting an animal on the trail.A dog, he was ok, at 150lbs
he weighed more than I do.
Frank

Jeff Strickland

>
> The point is that mountain bikers LIE. CONSTANTLY! Thanks for helping me
prove
> my case against mountain biking. If mountain bikers are that dangerous to
> THEMSELVES, then they are just as dangerous to other people and wildlife,
and
> mountain biking deserves to be banned. You have the right to destroy
yourself,
> but not anyone else.
>

There is no logical link to what injuries a bike rider might give himself
and what he might do to others that use the same trail. For example, cars
run over pedestrians all the time, but I have never in my life come close to
hitting a hiker while driving my Jeep offroad. I have crashed my Jeep on
more than one occasion and exposed myself to injuries that thankfully I
didn't actually receive. But, in none of those instances, or any other
instance, have I ever operated my machine in a manner which is hazardous to
pedestrians on the trail.

A mountain bike rider can easily hurt himself each and every time he gets on
his bike, but never pose a threat to anybody but himself.