Page 27 - broken clavicle...surgery or not?

25-11.-2007, 02:15 AM

#391

alienator

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Tucson, AZ

Posts: 2,657

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGHealing

Yeah, I don't have any tattoos so I'm kind of excited about the scar(s) left behind. Scars are unique abstract history maps with stories/ memories behind them.

I will definitely try to get my hands on the pin that's keeping me together when and if they decide to remove it. I don't know if they let you keep hardware that's been in your body, though. I was told by a oral surgeon, when I had a tooth removed, that he wouldn't let me have my own tooth after he had just yanked it out due to it being a possible "bio hazard". I actually ended up stealing my own tooth back after he had left the office to speak with another patient. I had my reasons for wanting the tooth back. (And no, it had nothing to do with the tooth fairy/$.)

They'll let you keep the pin. You're just not allowed to keep bio matter. I've got some screws, a plate, and a bone growth stimulator that I've had removed.

25-11.-2007, 04:58 AM

#392

katiej2

Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2006

Posts: 10

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by saff

Hi all,

I broke my left clavicle (and six ribs) in a t-bone mva 7 weeks ago while on hols in South Africa. The Orthopaed who treated me there would have operated when the friction burn from the seatbelt healed. I was very keen to have the surgery due to the reduced healing time - I find it unbearably frustrating sitting around waiting to heal and having to depend on my partner to complete the smallest of tasks for me. Unfortunately, by the time the burn healed, the Orth was on holiday and my partner was keen to return to the UK so he could get back to earning - in hindsight a mistake as I would be justabout good as new by now had I stayed for the op...

As suspected, treatment on the NHS is a very drawn out process and my first two appointments were with a doc who apparently was not authorised to make the decision about surgery, due to his locum status! I was v angry when I learned this as I felt 3 weeks had been wasted - I am however comforted somewhat after reading all your posts, and realising that this does drag on and I'm not necessarily being jerked around by the NHS.

I finally saw a consultant last week who is keen to operate as the displaced bone fragment is lying adjacent to the clav resulting in about a 2.5cm drop in the left shoulder and while the break is not causing any pain now (I've been off all meds for 3 weeks) and movement in my arm is improving, I do suffer an intense, burning muscle pain in my shoulder at times when I don't wear the sling, from what I can only presume to be the lack of support from the clavicle itself. It feels like there is a huge weight pulling down on my arm/shoulder. Will this improve or will I continue to suffer pain? I have already suffered from back pain for 17 of my 31 yrs and dont want to make it any worse.

The happy, but v unfortunately timed news is that I am 8 weeks pregnant!! I am already extremely concerned about all the xrays and meds administered while in hospital and up until the time I discovered the pregnancy and due to a backlog at my GP, I have been informed not to expect a call from the midwife or refferal to an Obs Gyn until at least 14-16 weeks (another 6 weeks until those concerns are addressed!) I have been assured that the risk of miscarriage / deformity from general anaesthetic during surgery are 'minimal' during the first trimester, and even less thereafter. There is, nevertheless, still a risk.

I have been left to make the decision and I really don't know what to do. If I decide not to have the surgery, I am most concerned about resultant (im)mobility of the shoulder and possible continuing muscle pain. There is a slight cosmetic concern as I am quite bony and the difference in shoulder height and shape is obvious, some clothes now even sag slightly on that shoulder. The bump where it heals on its own will also be obvious and I've been told it will take another 5 weeks until its healed (argh!). If I do have the surgery however, much quicker healing time (yay) but there is of course the cosmetic concern of scarring - so either way, I'll just have to grin and bear whichever I am left with. The pregnancy issue just complicates the situation, especially considering I don't know if any damage has already been done. Lastly my sick pay at work runs out shortly, and with a baby on the way, I'm keen to maintain an income and get back to a 'normal' life, before its all turned on its head in 7 months time. (Am I being selfish in the way I'm looking at this?) We have not yet told anyone about the pregnancy, hence my unburdening this rather lengthy explanation on you all - I really need to hear your thoughts, comments, experiences please... thanks

I am in the UK but was fortunate to be treated privately as the NHS said the bone had healed satisfactorily, which it had not. I've lost count of the xrays and painkillers. It took 5 months before I had the op. It was still around six weeks to recover with an op. The lump was very distressing for me. The fine scar was around 5 inches after the op and the swelling continued to improve for 6 months easily. In fact it faded very well and was much less obvious than the lump. I was left with a prominent plate and discomfort wearing seatbelts and rucksacks. So 12 months later I had the plate out and am now 4 days post surgery to remove the plate. In terms of strength and ability to return to being active without pain I don't believe in my case I'd have achieved that without the op. Best of luck. Most important thing is to have a good surgeon recommended.

25-11.-2007, 06:57 AM

#393

AGHealing

Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: MA, USA

Posts: 6

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by alienator

They'll let you keep the pin. You're just not allowed to keep bio matter. I've got some screws, a plate, and a bone growth stimulator that I've had removed.

I just wanted to upload a pic of the break. Enjoy...I didn't.

Also, another draw back to the surgery was that the dr. said that he had to snip three nerves that rest in front of the clavicle. He said that the area is usually numb for a while with a large (3 inch) diameter patch that grows smaller as you heal. Does anyone have an experience with this? I still have my dressing on my shoulder so I can't quite tell yet. Also, is it unheard of to be able to regenerate such nerves?

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25-11.-2007, 07:49 AM

#394

gplama

Registered User

Join Date: May 2004

Posts: 1,264

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGHealing

Also, another draw back to the surgery was that the dr. said that he had to snip three nerves that rest in front of the clavicle. He said that the area is usually numb for a while with a large (3 inch) diameter patch that grows smaller as you heal. Does anyone have an experience with this?

Yes. 6 months post my Op the size of the numb area is about 1 inch long, 2 inches wide on the front of my shoulder. It isn't as numb as before, more tingly I'd call it. It has had no negative impact on my shoulder/arm/movement/etc.

25-11.-2007, 09:44 AM

#395

Curb

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 64

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Ok, it's been 10 weeks since I had my operation and was pinned with screws and plate. Yes, in from just below the clavicle, it was numb for a while but I got the feeling back. however, on the shoulder directly in the front, in a small localized area, it's still slightly numb. i dont care about it as log as my clavicle join properly with the plate and screws and ican get back on my bike!

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGHealing

25-11.-2007, 09:47 AM	#396
alienator Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 2,657	Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not? How the nerves heal is a function of damage to them. With any surgery, there's always a nerve somewhere that is damaged. That's why scars and the area around a surgical incision are numb for a while. I'd not worry about it too much. If it were a real concern, your doctor would have mentioned it as a risk before the surgery.

25-11.-2007, 11:48 PM	#397
AGHealing Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: MA, USA Posts: 6	Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not? So I know that the body is going to need time to heal no matter what. But as far a nutrition and bone healing, is there any thing out there in particular that is good insurance? I'm a healthy eater anyway, but I've started taking cod liver oil (vitamin D in these winter months), spirulina powder (trace minerals), apples (vit. C, boron), kefir/ yogurt (calcium). Does anyone have any other diet suggestions? Also, does anyone know if painkillers inhibit the healing process? Thanks for the all the responses. I have my post op appointment this coming Wednesday. I'll try to upload some more pics and give an update then.

27-11.-2007, 07:35 AM

#398

cptaylor

Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2006

Posts: 3

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGHealing

So I know that the body is going to need time to heal no matter what. But as far a nutrition and bone healing, is there any thing out there in particular that is good insurance? I'm a healthy eater anyway, but I've started taking cod liver oil (vitamin D in these winter months), spirulina powder (trace minerals), apples (vit. C, boron), kefir/ yogurt (calcium). Does anyone have any other diet suggestions? Also, does anyone know if painkillers inhibit the healing process?

Thanks for the all the responses. I have my post op appointment this coming Wednesday. I'll try to upload some more pics and give an update then.

I had the same surgery almost 3 months ago. Probably with the same Dr. He said to not take Ibuprofren as there have been studies that it may inhibit bone growth.

I've been taking Boron and Oyster Shell Calcium and slapping on Mederma scar cream every chance I get.

01-12.-2007, 03:29 PM	#399
AGHealing Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: MA, USA Posts: 6	Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not? OK, I had my one week check up post operation. Everything looks good. The dr. said my collarbone was in more pieces than what the x-ray had shown. He said I had strong bones (the yogurt I eat every morning has paid off!) and that the screw/pin was anchored quite well. I'm out of a sling in house and in a sling when roaming the streets to let others known I'm gimpy on that side. I seem to be gaining confidence with my injuryed left side on a daily basis. I was told by the dr. to not treat the wound(s) with anything. I have been left the original "butterfly" bandages which he said would fall off eventually. Under the butterfly bandages I have dissolvable stiches. I want to treat the wound with a honey on gauze to help the process along. (Honey was used pre-WWII to treat wounds and is making a come back due to bacteria mutating around antibiotic creams.) I have never had dissolvable stitches before so I'm hoping it doesn't dissolve the stitches before they're done doing their job. I'll keep you posted. Attached Thumbnails Last edited by AGHealing : 01-12.-2007 at 03:34 PM.

02-12.-2007, 04:56 AM

#400

Curb

Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2007

Posts: 64

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

I wouldn’t mess with it and especially put honey on it!
Just leave it alone. You're lucky to have that kind of break and have that screw type of fix instead of the plate and screws. i think the plate and screws are stronger and more robust but requires more extensive and open surgery and additional care but once in place seems to support a broken clavicle better.

How long did the Dr say you have tho leave your screw in?

Quote:

Originally Posted by AGHealing

OK, I had my one week check up post operation. Everything looks good. The dr. said my collarbone was in more pieces than what the x-ray had shown. He said I had strong bones (the yogurt I eat every morning has paid off!) and that the screw/pin was anchored quite well. I'm out of a sling in house and in a sling when roaming the streets to let others known I'm gimpy on that side. I seem to be gaining confidence with my injuryed left side on a daily basis.

I was told by the dr. to not treat the wound(s) with anything. I have been left the original "butterfly" bandages which he said would fall off eventually. Under the butterfly bandages I have dissolvable stiches. I want to treat the wound with a honey on gauze to help the process along. (Honey was used pre-WWII to treat wounds and is making a come back due to bacteria mutating around antibiotic creams.) I have never had dissolvable stitches before so I'm hoping it doesn't dissolve the stitches before they're done doing their job. I'll keep you posted.

02-12.-2007, 05:55 AM

#401

AGHealing

Registered User

Join Date: Nov 2007

Location: MA, USA

Posts: 6

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

The Dr. said I'd have the screw in for about 3-4 months but that he had no problem leaving it in a bit longer if need be. It seems that he'll just re-open the smaller cut and back out the screw when the time comes.

I was given the option of a plate and screws but it didn't seem like the best option as I'm a fairly lean guy. The plate would be awfully visible through the skin. I'm lucky in a lot of different ways and am happy that I chose the route that I did.

I have to say though, I have been experiencing a pinched nerve in my shoulder, I think, due to the operation. I usually only feel it in the morning when waking up. It kind of paralyzes me with pain briefly then subsides. I suppose it could be just a from not having many sleeping positions to chose from. Hopefully it fades with time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curb

10-12.-2007, 10:40 AM

#402

trevortorseth

Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 3

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by James Thomas

I broke my clavicle June 21st (pretty painful but still was a fun ride prior to the fall). I have been presented the option of surgery or the old fashioned "let it heal as is". I have never broken a bone in my 33 year life span and am weighing the pros and cons of surgery. I would like input if you have experience. I already have back problems so I am leaning toward the surgery in order to alleviate potential future complications. Please let me know what your experience has been. Thanks!

Wow! I broke mine June 22nd along with my scapula; however, I was on my motorcycle (fun ride 'till the end). The coincidences here are remarkable- I too am 33 with back problems and this is my first major break (son of a gun hurt). The whole sling thing I would have to say was a joke (particularly the sling given to me by the hospital/Kaiser Permanente), I was able to purchase a far better sling for $80 at a medical supply store. I started doing light rehab with the rubber bands within the month and by my six week follow up (August 6th) had close to full mobility, however, considerable pain and instability. My subsequent follow ups with my doctor (at the time), Dr. Camb (Kaiser Permanente), were both cancelled; obviously very dissatisfied I demanded to see another more responsible surgeon ASAP. I finally got into see a Dr. Matsuda in early November (Kaiser Permanente/hip and knee specialist) he took one look at me and thought I should have had, or have surgery, but not being his field of expertise recommended I see the head of the orthopedic department who was- and is- the resident shoulder expert. An appointment was finally made to see this doctor (Dr. Faustgen) Nov 27th, which I had to reschedule for Nov 29th. Faustgen thus far has said surgery may leave me worse off, however, he has ordered a CT Scan and wants to see me in the New Year (this will take me just over 6 months). My problem is I don't necessarily trust Kaiser Permanente and it's health provisions, as I've heard their surgeons get kick backs for not providing costly health services. At this point I don't know what to do- I just know I need my arm; I have what the doctors have referred to as a non union. I've read that people are seeing better results with surgery. The musculature and movement feels fine but the bone does not seem strong; I lift weights and I know I could not lift nearly what I would normally.

10-12.-2007, 02:50 PM

#403

trevortorseth

Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2007

Posts: 3

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by byfred

Mine only hurt for the first three weeks.........the most painful thing was to use a fly-swatter. I never even thought of surgery and my doctor never mentioned it either. It's been all up hill since then and I have full movement and no pain, just a lump on the site of the fracture.

byfred

Yeah about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks of hell.

10-12.-2007, 05:24 PM

#404

alienator

Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2004

Location: Tucson, AZ

Posts: 2,657

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevortorseth

Yeah about 2 1/2 to 3 weeks of hell.

That combination of injuries can be a bit hellish. When I shattered my clavicle, I also shattered my scapula, broke my 1st, 2nd, and 4th ribs in two places each (The ER doc stopped counting fractures in my torso when he got to 26. He said it was just getting too silly.), and broke c5 in my neck, leaving my right arm (the side of the clavicle/scapula injuries) partially paralyzed for three months. Unfortunately, the paralysis didn't lessen the pain. One day, tired of the sling, I took my arm out of the sling and sat it vertically with my elbow on the arm of the chair. There came a moment when I noticed my arm falling over, and with the paralysis, I was unable to stop the fall. I could only scream once the fall stopped. It was righteous pain.

Then about a month down the road, there were the nights in bed when I would roll onto the broken side. A loud, grating, and muy painful pop would follow, and my wife would wake up to my scream.

Fun stuff.

11-12.-2007, 12:47 AM

#405

feetorfish

Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2007

Posts: 9

Re: broken clavicle...surgery or not?

if you have a non union, and not a delayed you most certainly need to consider surgery.A very common cause of non union is too much motion. It concerns me that you started exercising your shoulder after only a month. I'm about 7 weeks into my clavicle and scapula fracture and I would not think about doing exercises against resistence. I'm doing passive exercises to get range of motion back. I'm all the way over in Florida and don't have personal experience with Kaiser. I do know they were a pioneer in the HMO movement. I don't have fond opinions of the whole idea. If you went past 3 months without good healing you should have been put in a bone stimulator. That is what is referred to as STANDARD OF CARE, which is what physicians are judged by.Most insurance companies want to see lack of signs of healing at 3 months before they will approve a bone stim. The problem is some HMOs don't like to approve them. I got mine through some arm twisting in 8 days. the companies that make them charge anywhere from 4200 to 5000 to the insurance companies for them. I would personally demand a bone stim now surgery or no surgery. It will make you heal faster after the surgery if you end up having it. Best of luck.

Quote:

Originally Posted by trevortorseth

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