Firecrackers!

Kevan Smith

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 12:56:45 -0800, "F1" <F1@tivoracing.net> from wrote:

>Kevan know, he talks to dogs all the time...

Yep, and your momma says hi.

/me rolls eyes

--
Kevan Smith
xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz

Kevan Smith

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 16:24:57 -0400, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> from The
Esoteric c0wz Society wrote:

>On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:21:53 -0500, Kevan Smith <Kevan@mouse-
>potato.com> wrote:
>>A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little
>>choice in the matter. If the instinct is strong enough, no
>>amount of your "correction" is going to stop it. The way
>>we train dogs is to harness their instincts in more
>>positive directions.
>
>Any suggestions for training two dachshunds to stop
>barking?

Make their environment more peaceful.

--
Kevan Smith
xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz

Tom Keats

In article <6cged0duddlk34daaejdfbl88ds9ikd7qv@4ax.com>,
Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> writes:

> How about those 'snappers', the little paper sacks filled
> with some sort of rock that goes "snap" and smokes a
> little when you throw it at the ground...might work, and
> much easier, just drop it; "SNAP!".

It won't work.

No more than firecrackers, spritzes, or any other gimmicks.
A dog who is really intent on catching you simply won't be
distracted. If the pooch really is more of a threat than a
kick-off-able ankle-biter or a flappy, love-starved ol'
puppy, it all boils down to fight or flight.

Here's the standard, time-tested-&-true advice: Outrun them
if you can. If you can't and the dog persists: stop,
dismount, use your bike as a shield between you and the dog,
and do what you must to defend yourself.

But your hands are going to be too full of bike to be
reaching for firecrackers + a lighter, or a can of Halt.
You'd be using your feet a lot, as well as brandishing your
bike while the dog is trying to circle around behind you.
And you'd have to be very, very quick so the dog can't latch
onto you. You won't have a chance to be reaching for anti-
dog weaponry, so there's really no point in packing all that
extra, useless stuff around.

BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile, maybe just
bury a rabbit carcass, and put them to work digging it up.
OTOH, when they eventually do dig it up, they'd probably
squabble over it anyway. Never mind. OTotherOH, maybe give
them /each/ one to dig up. Nah -- then they'd just have two
dead rabbits to squabble over. Never mind. I guess you're
just stuck with vocal dachshunds.

cheers, Tom

--
-- "I didn't punch no doggie." -- Billy Martin, in an old
beer commercial

Benjamin Weiner

Michael J. Klein <mklein@mousepotato.com> wrote:

> http://www.lonelocust.com/travel/Ta...gapore/Taiwan3-
> .htm " First we caught the [Taipei Rapid Transit], then
> we took off on foot. We were moving at a rapid clip, but
> then a pack of wild dogs set upon us. We left Jeff for
> dead, fighting off the dogs." - written by private
> Citizens in Taiwan.

Hmm, the rest of that paragraph says:

"David and I hurried... faster and faster we walked,
finally arriving at 9:30... too late. Chu-Wan was already
there... as was Jeff. He had taken a Taxi."

I guess reports of poor Jeff's demise must have been greatly
exaggerated.

Not a fan of uncontrolled dogs, Ben

The Real Bev

keydates wrote:
>
> I've heard that a little whack on the nose with a water
> bottle will do the trick.

I thought that was sharks, although I guess you wouldn't be
likely to be carrying a water bottle during a shark attack.
Never mind...

>BTW, wasn't this supposed to be about firecrackers?

You probably couldn't throw firecrackers at a shark either.
What a silly idea.

--
Cheers, Bev
**********************************************************-
**********
Organized people will never know the sheer joyous ecstasy of
finding something that was believed to have been
irretrievably lost. -- D. Stern

The Real Bev

Kevan Smith wrote:
>
> The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote:
> >Kevan Smith wrote:
> >> "di" <di0000@cox.net> from Cox Communications wrote:
> >> >>Kevan wrote: You're going from chasing to biting. If
> >> >>a dog is biting you, sure, defend yourself. Spraying
> >> >>a chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that
> >> >>is merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing
> >> >>dogs just do it for play, not to commit harm. And, as
> >> >>I said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have
> >> >>seen it work many times.
> >> >
> >> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to
> >> >determine if it's merely a chase or bite?
> >>
> >> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn
> >> to freakin' read.
> >
> >Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about
> >mixing a LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a
> >better suggestion?
>
> Ammonia eats away flesh. It's a caustic solution. That's
> why it blinds. Even a little bit is harmful.

What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you
clean your windows? Do you know anybody who does? I once
(yeah, stupid, I know) sprayed myself in the eye with dryer
fabric-softening spray. It took several days for the blur to
disappear. Would Windex have been more damaging?

> If you insist on a spray, jalapeno juice (not pickled)
> inflames nerve endings to cause pain, but it is otherwise
> harmless. It's cheaper than pepper spray, too.

Interesting. So all you need are some jalapenos and a
blender? And the skill to avoid dripping the stuff on
yourself? I've dealt with jalapenos. You need gloves.

> Do you have a size limit? I mean, if a Chihuahua were
> chasing you bent on attack, would you spray it with
> ammonia as readily as you might a pit bull?

No. As a matter of fact I WAS chased by a chihuahua. I had
time to get off and do my bear imitation. Game little guy. I
had to do it three times before he went back home. The
German Shepard turned tail the first time, but my bicycle
wasn't around.

> Or how about a friendliness limit -- say, a beautiful
> Golden Retriever, among the gentlest of dogs, were chasing
> you and barking, would you spray it with a caustic
> solution?

You look at their faces. You look at their posture. You look
at their tails. Some dogs are clearly playing, others want
blood. With some you can't tell.

In general, dogs are wonderful. In many cases they're much
nicer than humans. I don't carry pepper spray or a squirt
gun or ammonia and I'd have to get off my bike and open up
my trunk bag to get my pump, which is too puny to be
usefully threatening to anything past weaning age. I guess I
could grab my water bottle and throw it at the dog, but that
doesn't seem like it would be really effective. This whole
discussion is theoretical.

> If you are looking for a really humane solution to the dog
> chasing problem, I can think of three really good ones: 1)
> outrace the dog,

I can't outrace my 5'5" 250-lb beer-bellied medicare-age
friend, why should I be able to outrace a dog of sufficient
size to be at least potentially frightening? I've been
riding for 10 years and am not likely to discover new depths
of hitherto-unfound talent.

> or 2) learn to make dog friends,

Sometimes works. Dogs are generally very nice people unless
they've been owned by shitheads who treat them badly.

or 3) don't ride in that area.

You mean "don't ride in any area that might contain a possibly-
scary dog"? My husband, riding alone at night, was chased up
a hill in the Cajon Pass area by a pack of feral dogs. He
was just fast enough that he could keep ahead of them and
eventually they got tired and turned around. He remembers
wondering if they managed to catch him, could he kill one of
them and would that perhaps distract the others while they
ate their former pal?

What SHOULD he have done?

--
Cheers, Bev
**********************************************************-
**********
Organized people will never know the sheer joyous ecstasy of
finding something that was believed to have been
irretrievably lost. -- D. Stern

Zoot Katz

Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:12:41 -0700, <40D7A3A9.65201C3D@myrealbox.com>,
The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> wrote, of ammonia:

>What do you think is in Windex? Do you wear gloves when you
>clean your windows?

Did you ever spray that stuff on emerging carpenter
ants? Kills 'em quicker than than Black Flag and much
easier to clean up.
--
zk

Rick Onanian

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 17:54:43 -0700, tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats)
wrote:
>BTW -- to get dachshunds to shuddup for awhile, maybe just
>bury a rabbit carcass, and put them to work digging it up.

I love it! Great idea. Won't work due to the well-manicured
yard (and I'm not the owner of said yard), but maybe I can
come up with something.

>OTOH, when they eventually do dig it up, they'd probably
>squabble over it anyway. Never mind. OTotherOH, maybe give
>them /each/ one to dig up. Nah -- then they'd just have two
>dead rabbits to squabble over. Never mind.

Here's how sharing works for them: The female mini eats
anything that's edible before the male standard-sized can
get near it. The male takes anything that could be a toy,
and makes a really convincing vicious growl if anybody goes
near it or him.

My girlfriend, who claims to love these dogs, insists on
making him do that growl. That growl turns my stomach. I
just can't believe that he's growling like that as part of a
game; I believe he really is trying to protect his toy, and
she's hurting his feelings.

>I guess you're just stuck with vocal dachshunds.

Yup, that's the conclusion I've come to. As a result, I've
decided simply to complain on usenet every chance I get --
if they can be vocal, so can I! <G>

Actually, I might be able to come up with something like
your buried rabbit idea. It might actually distract them
from food and barking.

Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking
them badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat
a badger. Too bad, because I could actually enjoy these dogs
that way, and (get ready for Kevan to really boil over) I'd
love to go hunting and shoot something!

Anybody want to get a shot-up badger in the mail?
--
Rick Onanian

Curtis L . Russ

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:54:32 -0500, Kevan Smith
<Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote:

>As a vet, I'm sure you are aware of how cruel and inhumane
>that action is.

Worked for a vet. Held the dogs while in high school and my
first year of college. I was the one who stayed in the room
while everyone else cleared out. That's the main reason for
the mottle effect on both thumbs and index fingers...

German Shepherds BTW bite harder than damn near every thing
else. Fortunately they don't grind their teeth when biting.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on
two wheels...

Badger_south

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400, Rick Onanian <spamsink@cox.net> wrote:

>Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking
>them badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would eat
>a badger. Too bad, because I could actually enjoy these
>dogs that way, and (get ready for Kevan to really boil
>over) I'd love to go hunting and shoot something!
>
>Anybody want to get a shot-up badger in the mail?
>--
>Rick Onanian

HEY!

-Badger

Badger_south

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 08:58:40 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
<curtis@md-bicycling.org> wrote:

>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 18:54:32 -0500, Kevan Smith <Kevan@mouse-
>potato.com> wrote:
>
>>As a vet, I'm sure you are aware of how cruel and inhumane
>>that action is.
>
>Worked for a vet. Held the dogs while in high school and my
>first year of college. I was the one who stayed in the room
>while everyone else cleared out. That's the main reason for
>the mottle effect on both thumbs and index fingers...
>
>German Shepherds BTW bite harder than damn near every thing
>else. Fortunately they don't grind their teeth when biting.
>
>Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two
>wheels...

Dude, you're 'Net Resource in and of yourself. You oughtta
do a website - "things I learned about dogs, and still have
all my fingers - mostly".

I kid, but it's true - thanks for the interesting posts on
the 'vet days'.

-Badger

Badger_south

On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 20:12:41 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com>
wrote:

>What SHOULD he have done?
>
>--
>Cheers, Bev

Interesting post.

IMO, doesn't matter how fast you are, how quick, or how
picky your riding area, the dogs will eventually find you.
You aren't going to be quick enough to get out your anti-dog
measures, be accurate enough to hit them or make a
difference, or always be in the right gear to out-run/ride
'em. In my case b/c of the injured hip, I can't get off the
bike fast enough to put it between them and me. This adds
up, unfortunately to some frustration.

I am going to start carrying some anti-dog measures, in fact
three of 'em. I have no intention of using them, but in at
least one case it could have been very bad - the owner
actually sicced his dog on me b/c I dared to say 'hey, your
dog's outta control, if I hit him it's not my fault'. This
caused an expletive deleted and a dog attack. Fortunately he
called off his very large rottweiler. If I had the spray, I
might have sprayed both him and the dog and then got his ID
and called the cops; but as it was I was able to make
friends with him by apologizing for my comments. Still,
inside I wanted to kick his ass and easily could have were I
not worried about the dog joining in.

In the final analysis, it's better to be silent, swift and
fly quietly below the radar. (But in the case of riding
where there might be feral dogs, I'd be CCW-ing. Even this
could be bad, b/c if you stop to draw a bead, you would
get mobbed)

-Badger

Rick Onanian

On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 10:39:33 -0400, Badger_South <Badger@South.net>
wrote:
>On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:12:29 -0400, Rick Onanian
><spamsink@cox.net> wrote:
>>Somebody (I think on another newsfroup) suggested taking
>>them badger-hunting; but I don't know anybody who would
>>eat a badger. Too
...
>>Anybody want to get a shot-up badger in the mail?
>
>HEY! -Badger

Sorry, I was just talking about badgers north...
--
Rick Onanian

Mark Mitchell

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On 2004-06-21, Kevan Smith <Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell
> <mark_mitwrong@wrongbellsouth.net> from BellSouth Internet
> Group wrote:
>
>>I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here.
>>
>>A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that
>>negative reinforcement (correction) is inappropriate.
>>Meditate on the primary defence of skunks and porcupines
>>and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to
>>stop an instinctive behavior.
>
> instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your
> one spray with the ammonia bottle would be enough to blind
> and maim the dog, but it's not nearly enough training time
> to change the instinctual behavior.

Kevan, please keep track of who you're talking to. I defy
you to find any post of mine in the last several days where
I even implied that I approve of spraying any living
creature with ammonia.

Mark

- --
Remove both wrongs to make the email address right.

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