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22-06.-2004, 02:32 AM
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#61 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
Michael J. Klein misquoted me thus:
> >kmssavage@earthlink.net (Karen M.) wrote in message news- > >:<4bfcf85b.0406190650.6c766d60@posting.google.com>... > >I've been thinking about picking up some of these to deal > >with dogs. Of course trying to light an explosive while > >dealing with traffic and dogs doesn't sound like too good > >of an idea, but I doubt it's much harder than trying to > >aim a can of Halt at 20mph. I did not write the above paragraph. --Karen M. |
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22-06.-2004, 02:48 AM
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#62 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
Badger_South wrote:
> OK, having read the OP's 'dangers of ammonia', I agree, > it's not cool to use concentrated ammonia on animals for > any reason.... Er, OP is moi, and my thread is about FIRECRACKERS, not dogs nor ammonia. --Karen M., |
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22-06.-2004, 03:02 AM
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#63 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
Claire wrote:
> This story made me recall how someone threw a firecracker > at my while I was on my bike when I was about nine or ten > years old. I was *so* frightened from it. I rode to my > friend's house which was only four more houses down the > street, and basically stepped over their threshold and > burst into sobs. Her mom was really nice to me, and helped > me feel better. It's mean to throw firecrackers at anyone, > but at a kid is even worse. I had completely forgotten > that incident until reading this posting. > > Karen, you don't have a friend's mom to give you hugs, > probably, so I'll give you some of my virtual ones. You're a dear! I wasn't scared, just mightily PO'ed at these jerks and intent on getting them stopped before they try it again and hurt someone. --Karen M. eager for Independence Day to get here and be gone! |
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22-06.-2004, 03:02 AM
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#64 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On 21 Jun 2004 10:30:14 -0700, kmssavage@earthlink.net (Karen M.) wrote:
>Badger_South wrote: > >> OK, having read the OP's 'dangers of ammonia', I agree, >> it's not cool to use concentrated ammonia on animals for >> any reason.... > > Er, OP is moi, and my thread is about FIRECRACKERS, not > dogs nor ammonia. > >--Karen M., Correct. Apologies, KM. -B |
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22-06.-2004, 03:51 AM
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#65 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 22:35:42 -0700, tomk2003@hotmail.com (Tom Keats) from
wrote: >Chasing is one thing, but viciously attacking is >quite another. And I have never claimed the two to be the same. The original post I responded to suggested spraying ammonia on dogs that merely chase. The whole attacking notion came from people who got their panties all up in a knot over my response. If you are attacked by a dog, do defend yourself. If you think you'll have the time and accuracy to squirt a dog with ammonia while being attacked, you're welcome to try, but I think you'll be better off using your bike as both shield and club. However, chasing is not attacking. Chasing is just following. And usually, chasing bikes is meant to be play, not attack. Even the dogs that look like they are going to attack are usually going to abandon the chase when you leave their territory. If people learned more about dogs, they would be less fearful of them. -- Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz |
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22-06.-2004, 03:51 AM
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#66 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:57:54 -0400, Badger_South <Badger@South.net> from
wrote: >It's silent, instantaneous, quick to deploy, extremely >accurate, and should easily escape detection of its use by >the dog owner, and should do no permanent harm to the >offending dog. It's also effective on all dogs, unlike the >sonic devices, or heh, a squirt of water. You're gonna fart on the animal?  -- Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz |
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22-06.-2004, 03:51 AM
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#67 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:10:18 -0700, The Real Bev <bashley@myrealbox.com> from
wrote: >Kevan Smith wrote: >> >> "di" <di0000@cox.net> from Cox Communications wrote: >> >>Kevan wrote: You're going from chasing to biting. If a >> >>dog is biting you, sure, defend yourself. Spraying a >> >>chemical that could blind or poison on a dog that is >> >>merely chasing is cruelty to animals. Most chasing dogs >> >>just do it for play, not to commit harm. And, as I >> >>said, a simple spray of water stops them. I have seen >> >>it work many times. >> > >> >Wait until he gets his teeth into your flesh to >> >determine if it's merely a chase or bite? >> >> No, spray it with water to make it stop chasing. Learn to >> freakin' read. > >Somebody said he'd tried water, to no effect. What about >mixing a LITTLE ammonia with the water? Or do you have a >better suggestion? Ammonia eats away flesh. It's a caustic solution. That's why it blinds. Even a little bit is harmful. If you insist on a spray, jalapeno juice (not pickled) inflames nerve endings to cause pain, but it is otherwise harmless. It's cheaper than pepper spray, too. Do you have a size limit? I mean, if a Chihuahua were chasing you bent on attack, would you spray it with ammonia as readily as you might a pit bull? Or how about a friendliness limit -- say, a beautiful Golden Retriever, among the gentlest of dogs, were chasing you and barking, would you spray it with a caustic solution? If you are looking for a really humane solution to the dog chasing problem, I can think of three really good ones: 1) outrace the dog, or 2) learn to make dog friends, or 3) don't ride in that area. -- Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz |
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22-06.-2004, 04:05 AM
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#68 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 888
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Re: Firecrackers!
I've heard that a little whack on the nose with a water bottle will do the trick. BTW, wasn't this supposed to be about firecrackers?
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22-06.-2004, 04:16 AM
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#69 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 09:16:17 GMT, Mark Mitchell
<mark_mitwrong@wrongbellsouth.net> from BellSouth Internet Group wrote: >I'm sorry, but you've just lost me here. > >A dog chasing is instinct, I agree. I disagree that >negative reinforcement (correction) is inappropriate. >Meditate on the primary defence of skunks and porcupines >and then tell me that no amount of correction is going to >stop an instinctive behavior. I've seen some dogs go after skunks time and again no matter how much they get sprayed. In fact, dogs love rolling in awful smells. Skunk spray, to them, can be a badge of honor. Further, neither skunk spray nor porcupine quills are generally harmful in the long run. Sure, enough training changes instinctive behavior into other areas, but the instinct remains. In terms of the chasing instinct, your one spray with the ammonia bottle would be enough to blind and maim the dog, but it's not nearly enough training time to change the instinctual behavior. -- Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz |
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22-06.-2004, 04:50 AM
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#70 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
"Kevan Smith" <Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:9a9ed0pb8qt0bv8lhd2pf20bbrpi1cohj0@4ax.com... > If you are looking for a really humane solution to the > dog chasing problem, I > can think of three really good ones: 1) outrace the dog, While this may be possible for you, someone else may not have the physical ability, or even the desire, to do this. or 2) learn to make > dog friends, Not everyone wants dog friends and besides, not all dogs are friendly. or 3) don't ride in that area. I have a right to ride in any area I want; the dog does not have the right to chase me. It seems so simple to me. The dog's owner has the responsibility to keep his dog out of the street. If he can't or won't do it and his dog attacks someone, he, and the dog, must suffer the consequences. If a strange dog runs up to you barking and growling, how are you going to know if he's just "chasing" and not attacking, until it's too late. I don't want to get bit or knocked off my bike. Although I would never advocate using ammonia or any other caustic or poisonous substances on a chasing dog, I do think pepper spray is a good idea. It will cause no permanent damage to the dog and may teach both the dog and owner a valuable lesson. Dave |
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22-06.-2004, 05:01 AM
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#71 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 13:13:21 -0500, Kevan Smith
<Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote: >However, chasing is not attacking. Chasing is just >following. And usually, chasing bikes is meant to be play, >not attack. Even the dogs that look like they are going to >attack are usually going to abandon the chase when you >leave their territory. > >If people learned more about dogs, they would be less >fearful of them. And there are a whole lot of dogs that will nip when chasing, friendly or not (I have an Aussie that will do it if you get her herding instincts flowing). Nipping a cyclist can cripple. I actually know more cyclists that had permanent (two cases) and semi-permanent (five cases IIRC) damage from dogs nipping the heel than I know people that had serious injury from the oft-discussed helmet issues. IMO a person that can take action against a chaser, should. This is a dog, whether friendly or not, that can take out another cyclist if not curbed. Its enough that the dog chases - if the cyclist ends up off the road and injured from their reaction, it is irrelevant whether or not the dog was friendly. (I had a Doberman owner with three free- running Dobs tell me that his Dobs were 'friendly' and I was overreacting to the 200 plus pounds of dog and teeth - he got to tell the same story to the Maryland State trooper who seemed to have my opinion of the mutts.Never saw those dogs outside again.) And I worked at a vet for three years and have owned a lot of dogs myself. I know dogs better than most - I'm one of those people that they call a dog person, where even unfriendly dogs come up to me wagging their tails - but the only people worse than those that know nothing about dogs are those that assume they can read every dog that comes up the pike. I've had my share of stitches from dogs that both I and the vets misread (actually both thumbs have scars up their side from 30 plus years ago). And some large breeds are known for making no overt sign until they strike. Don't assume the Akita is just chasing for fun. You'll have about two seconds for your decision-making if you treat it as a chase (I think that was my left thumb, to the bone). Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels... |
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22-06.-2004, 05:15 AM
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#72 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
"Kevan Smith" <Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote in message
news:bbhbd0lnpn4ri2hv3bv2ul1ms13hdijsr1@4ax.com... > On 20 Jun 2004 12:11:54 GMT, gabike@aol.com (GABIKE) from > AOL http://www.aol.com wrote: > > >>Cruelty to animals is against the law. If I ever see > >>anyone spraying ammonia > >>on a dog, I will report you to the police and follow the > >>case through the > >>courts to make sure you are punished. There is no need > >>to spray ammonia on a > >>chasing dog. A surprise shot of plain water shocks the > >>animal enough to make > >>it give up the chase. I have seen this work time > >>after time. > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz > >> > >> > > > >What about cruelty to humans? Get your head out of your > >rear end. > > A dog chasing someone is not cruelty. It is usually > instinct or play. > > > -- > Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz Kevan know, he talks to dogs all the time... |
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22-06.-2004, 06:02 AM
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#73 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Sun, 20 Jun 2004 23:21:53 -0500, Kevan Smith
<Kevan@mouse-potato.com> wrote: >A dog chasing you is instinct, The dog has very little >choice in the matter. If the instinct is strong enough, no >amount of your "correction" is going to stop it. The way we >train dogs is to harness their instincts in more positive >directions. Any suggestions for training two dachshunds to stop barking? Maybe I can harness their barking instinct for some more useful purpose like power generation. I'll attach generators to their jaws... I wonder if I can get them to run on a treadmill, so they'll be too tired to bark. -- Rick Onanian |
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22-06.-2004, 09:03 AM
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#74 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On 19 Jun 2004 17:11:17 -0700, jkm4_72@tds.net (John) wrote:
>I've been thinking about picking up some of these to deal >with dogs. Of course trying to light an explosive while >dealing with traffic and dogs doesn't sound like too good >of an idea, but I doubt it's much harder than trying to aim >a can of Halt at 20mph. How about those 'snappers', the little paper sacks filled with some sort of rock that goes "snap" and smokes a little when you throw it at the ground...might work, and much easier, just drop it; "SNAP!". -- Rick Onanian |
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22-06.-2004, 09:31 AM
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#75 |
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Guest
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Re: Firecrackers!
On Mon, 21 Jun 2004 15:52:24 -0400, Curtis L. Russell
<curtis@md-bicycling.org> from The Maryland Russells wrote: >IMO a person that can take action against a chaser, should. >This is a dog, whether friendly or not, that can take out >another cyclist if not curbed. Its enough that the dog >chases - if the cyclist ends up off the road and injured >from their reaction, it is irrelevant whether or not the >dog was friendly. (I had a Doberman owner with three free- >running Dobs tell me that his Dobs were 'friendly' and I >was overreacting to the 200 plus pounds of dog and teeth - >he got to tell the same story to the Maryland State trooper >who seemed to have my opinion of the mutts.Never saw those >dogs outside again.) > >And I worked at a vet for three years and have owned a lot >of dogs myself. I know dogs better than most - I'm one of >those people that they call a dog person, where even >unfriendly dogs come up to me wagging their tails - but the >only people worse than those that know nothing about dogs >are those that assume they can read every dog that comes up >the pike. I've had my share of stitches from dogs that both >I and the vets misread (actually both thumbs have scars up >their side from 30 plus years ago). And some large breeds >are known for making no overt sign until they strike. > >Don't assume the Akita is just chasing for fun. You'll have >about two seconds for your decision-making if you treat it >as a chase (I think that was my left thumb, to the bone). I'm one of those dog people, too. They seem to take a real liking to me, perhaps because they know I stick up for them. I agree that a person who can should take action in regard to a chasing dog. I don't think spraying ammonia is the thing to do. As a vet, I'm sure you are aware of how cruel and inhumane that action is. As cyclist, we have a long tradition of what to do about chasing dogs. The general consensus, based on countless cyclist years of experience, is that the best thing to do is either spray water at the dog or outrun it. It's right to look down on people who advocate spraying the dogs with maiming chemicals or shooting the dogs; those sorts of people are rightfully called mean and cruel. Animals may not have rights, but, as stewards, we have an obligation to treat animals humanely. You did the exact right thing regarding the Dobermans. I would suggest that if water spraying and outrunning doesn't work, that is the next step with any chasing dog -- notify the authorities. If the dog has an owner, then the cops can sure convince him or her to keep his fogs in. If the dog is a stray, then animal control can handle it. -- Kevan Smith xrinafzvgu23@lnubb.pbz |
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