gyming to improve power

Carrera

Basically the case is that I devote most of my cycling time predominantly to climbing. Some people might prefer sprinting while others are into speed. However, one of the problems I face is time constraints. It's tough to do as much as I'd like as I work nights during 12 hours and now this awful weather is adding to the difficulties.
With regard to the hill-training, I've been doing some experimentation with gears. What I found is my speed has improved somewhat in the bigger gear range. What I also discovered is that I have to work harder aerobically to push the bigger cogs. So, this hill-training is something I do once every few days but not every day. Other days I ride on the flat.
On a final note, the weather here is absolutely shocking. Nothing but rain and flooding.

the brother

But what does this have to do with weight training?

Carrera

I think we developed a side theme of whether strength was of any relevance or not.
What seems to be happening on the forum is there's a big divide of opinion and I see the weight-training issue keeps resurfacing. You have 3 camps:
(1) Those who claim weight-training will improve cycling performance.
(2) Those who reckon it's O.K. to weight train but aren't decided as to whether it will actually improve cycling performance (they recommoned weight-training as a means of preventing injury or calcium loss in the bones).
(3) Those who believe weight-training doesn't improve cycling performance.
Myself I'm somewhere in the middle camp but, to be honest, the issue isn't on my list of priorities. I only discuss it as I guess it makes for an interesting thread.
What I would say to those people who simply don't want to weight-train is that, sure, there are other ways you may be able to improve leg-strength. Those people who share my own desire to improve their climbing will probably get all the results they need climbing hills. There are things you can do like climbing with a small weight attached (a la Miguel Indurain) or working on your gearing. I've only spoken out in favour of squats as I've claimed they can strengthen your back and hips or be of use to people who might wish to gain weight e.t.c. I don't hold the view that squats will automatically make a person a better cyclist (possibly a different kind of cyclist might be closer).
All in all my position is very moderate being halfway between the two camps.

the brother

But why would they want to increase leg strength for cycling if it has no effect on performance?

But those that believe in the research that has been done, believe that leg strength has no influence on climbing ability. This is the point. If you want to improve your climbing ability you need to improve your POWER:WEIGHT ratio(the amount if energy you can produce per kg bodymass) NOT your STRENGTH:WEIGHT ratio(the amount of weight you can lift per kg bodymass).

These two are not the same.
Climbing with a heavier bike means you need to produce more power to climb at the same speed-you need to work harder.
Gearing doesn't affect power output unless you increase your speed at the same time. If you are climbing at the same speed, no matter what the gearing, you will be producing the same power(not taking in to account pedaling economy).

lederhosen

Even though maximum strength isn't a limiter in cycling performance, muscular endurance can be. Muscular endurance can be trained in gym. Joe Friel's cyclist bible suggests routines such as 3 set x 40 reps of squats at ~50% 1RM. Also important is to have your core muscles in good condition to prevent lower back pain etc. when riding hard for extended periods of time.

lederhosen

Oh, I forgot this:
Let's say rider A produces 250 W in a time trial, his average cadence is 100 RPM.
Rider B produces 500 W in the same time trial, average cadence also 100 RPM.

Rider B needs twice as much force as rider A. Yes, the power is produced aerobically, yes, maximum strength isn't an issue, muscular endurance is.

ric_stern/RST

unfortunately, you nor Friel understand what can and can't be done with weight training. It doesn't increase "muscular endurance" in trained cyclists.

in rider A and B, the limit is cardiovascular and metabolic

ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com

Bikerman2004

All I know is I've ridden for about 5 years. I started gyming it about a year ago. I usually do light to medium legwork.(More reps than weight). My acceleration has dramatically increased and my top avg speed is up about 3-4 mph.

lederhosen

You imply that you know everything that can be done with weight training, so please elaborate.

A set of 40 reps in squat takes at least one minute (an estimate) to complete, cyclists use intervals of length of one minute and even less to improve their power, so it would make sense that this kind of set resembles more interval training than strength training.

ric_stern/RST

without wishing to sound rude, have you read the thread in it's entirety and the article at cyclingnews.com or reviewed the literature surrounding this subject via e.g., Pub-Med?

ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com

BiochemGuy

The magnitude of the increase might not seem like alot but it is. Just the simple fact that there was an increase and not a decrease which is usually seen in post menopausal women. Most post menopausal women lose about 2% of there bone density per year. If a study shows an increase of 1% from resistance exercise then that is a net gain of 3%. Which would result in a 15% increase in 5 years.


Most studies show that resistance exercise increases bone density. The studies that didn't show an increase in bone density were usually poorly done studies because they didn't use a high enough intensity of resistance exercise; as measured by how close they trained the subjects to their 1 rep max on that exercise.

Weight bearing exercise seems to work best. So an exercise like squats will probably work much better for increasing bone density than an exercise like leg extensions since squats are more weight bearing.
It seems that the compression of bones from weight bearing stress stimulates an increase in bone mineral density beyond what is seen from just resistance exercise.

Endurance exercise has also been shown to increase bone density, but this is usually only seen in weight bearing endurance exercise such as running. I would't expect much of an effect on bone density from cycling.

ric_stern/RST

like i said in my earlier post about this, i'm not an expert in such area, but a colleague is. i stated his summary of the subject that the magnitude is small, the data is equivocal, and it isn't as good as drug intervention

ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com

lederhosen

Just a link:

http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=751

ric_stern/RST

unfortunately, the author at Pez has summed up the study incorrectly

ric

__________________
http://www.cyclecoach.com