Bush or Kerry or ???

limerickman

Bush's foreign policy failures : REALLY, I DON'T SEE THE MIGHTY UN CAPTURING OSL...HE HAS ATTACKED MORE THAN THE U.S. AT LEAST WE ARE DOING SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

1.Capturing BinLaden : failed
2.Capturing Mullah Omar : failed
3.Creating Democracy in Afghanistan : failed
4.Creating Deocracy in Iraq : failed.
5. Acting on reliable intelligence reports prior to 11th September
2001 : failed.

I've obviously touched a nerve here.

There's more chance of BinLaden and Omar dying of old age than the US capturing them !!
Or maybe they're playing with the WMD that were never in Iraq !

Come on Zapper - you've had nearly three years to find BinLaden and Omar and they've neither been betrayed or caught.
(It's ironic isn't it my friend - that the US offer millions for BinLadens head and it doesn't work. Another fundamental mistake by Bush - thinking that he can buy a result).

Afghanistan and democracy (or to use Dubya's words - "we'll impose democracy" - I love this statement because it's a contradiction - impose and democracy !).
Muhammed Karzai - the US imposed president - can't move outside Kabul !
He's likely to be assisinated if he moves outside Kabul !
So USA has imposed democracy in Kabul.
The other 90% of the country is still a warzone
(suggest you read about the British campaign to conquer Afghanistan in the 1840's - it's very similar to what is happening today in Afghanistan ).

Iraq and democracy.
Can't see much campaigning going on in Nasaria, Falluja, Baghdad
or Basra.
Handover on the 30th June.
I wager Breamer still will be there - on 1st July 2005 !

As regards your economy - Sept 11th most definitely had an impact.
I will concede this.
But let's face it - borrowing billions (which you and your kids will have to pay higher tax down the road to service this debt) and
deliberately devaluing the US dollar has had negligible effect.
Your economy has been in down turn since 2000.
Your anecdotal evidence - Zapper - is contradicted by the financial
markets (www.financialtimes.com).
Cafes full/bars packed/restaurants busy - I was in New York last summer and they were flogging stuff off just to stay busy (the fact that us Europeans are being tragetted with shopping holidays to your east coast - doesn't smack of a thriving economy).

Beastt

Don't forget some of his successes, Limerickman.

·He set out to convince America that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction so that he could go forward with the war he wanted for his own reasons.

He succeeded


·He wanted to leave Blair holding the bag when it turned out that there never were any weapons of mass destruction.

He succeeded


·He wanted good, brave Americans with much to live for to hand over their lives to him for his political gain and to think of him as a courageous leader.

He succeeded


·He wanted congress to hand over sole power to him to thrust the country into war.

He succeeded


·He wanted to undermine American freedoms and remove the civil rights of anyone he decides is a threat.

He succeeded


·He wanted to frighten the American people into agreeing to having their rights and freedoms slaughtered through is, so called, Patriot Act and Patriot Act II.

He succeeded


·He wanted to appear to as many as possible to have compassion and to be truly concerned about those who are fighting, dying and having limbs torn off. He wanted this to appear as a sincere gesture rather than a political ploy.

To some, at least, he succeeded.

limerickman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zapper

This is laughable...And CLINTON had 8 years to find him????Dont worry, we are going to pull him up in November!!!

Clinton didn't invade the country where BinLaden was living !
Clinton didn't give his forces limitless funding to find Binladen unlike Bush - and he still can't find him !
Laughable - you said it !

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zapper
Look, I live, ride, eat and shop on the East coast don't be so arrogant to think you can lecture me about my stomping grounds ole chum...Europeans being targeted...you are killing me, how can you spew this stuff with a straight face??? I just had dinner at a fondue restauant and the bill came to $120.00 u.s. dollars for my wife and I...We had reservations and it was packed!!Like it is every night...Houses are going up everywhere, you must get your spectacles away from the tele and see the real world...You are starting to sound like an old soviet communist trying to slam capitolism...
Once again...take your act on the road!!!its quite funny!!!

OK our national Airline (Aer Lingus) are offering and I quote
"Shopping weekends in Boston and New York : with the favourable exchange rate (Euro/Dollar) why not avail of our special offer return flights to New York from €179.00 - shop at
Masseys, T.K Mexx, J.C Penney" etc etc.
(see the Sunday Indpendent Newspaper 9/5/2004)
They offer us Europeans 80% off retail prices !!!!!
If they're so busy - how come they're flogging the stuff ???
I was there last year - the wife bought all round her !!

Your $120.00 meal translates in to €90.00 - given current exchange rates.
Bars/restaurants are busy - but how come your GDP is down ?
Probably too many people out eating and not producing ??
(being ironic here).

Why not have the guts to at least accept that Bush has made a
mess of things there.
Your country was a great nation - respected indeed.
But what has happened since 2000 has been terrible for your country and the world.

You know my brother in law is from New York - a straightup guy
as you say.
He speaks his mind - he is a Republican and even he thinks that
Bush and his goverment is the worst goverment he's lived under
and he's 39 !
I can't convert him from being a Republican (although I try) - I'll keep plugging away.

limerickman

A very cogent argument - he has indeed lied to people repeatedly.

It's funny - well it's not funny, it's ironic - we had a post earlier about how Bush went to visit someone in a hospital and something about saluting etc.

Perhaps, it would be a good idea if the commander in chief went
to the funeral of those of whom he volunteered to fight his illegal war - instead of running around saluting people behind closed doors !

Saucy

I'm really getting sick of reading this kind of shit. Its one thing to make your point and disagree but is it really necessary to be so rude and condescending?

This tone become so rampant that I don't even bother posting in these political threads due to certain posters (zapper and babbar) that frequent them and attack other posters by writing stuff like this.

Why is it that the pro-bush posters seem to feel that they have to be abusive to other posters in order to make their point? Everyone else is making their arguments without attacking other posters, why cant you?

I am interested in peoples thoughts on these subjects but reading stuff like this is not only offensive (moderators where are you ?) but its also embarassing to all Americans everywhere.

less'go

Well, Saucy, things do tend to heat up when people talk politics. That is part and parcel, as we're very unlikely to successively convince anyone of anything they don't want to believe.

Whenever I go back to visit the family in Texas, I, a tried and true liberal democrat, listen whenever I can to Rush Limbaugh. Although he repulses me, it is good to know the mentality of his kind of republican - liberal-bashing and mud slinging and overzealously patriotic. He makes myu skin crawl but I swear I find it interesting.

Anywho, many right wing republicans have taken this habit of labeling anything that does not fit into their ideology "Liberal" and anyone who does not agree with them can be qualified with a wide variety of terms such as "Snot-nosed hippie liberal assh*les trying to force their liberal agenda"... Or whatever. Limbaugh is really very creative with his adjectives.

Anywho, I just registered to vote in the upcoming elections. I do not like President Bush, to say the least. Since you're asking. I don't agree with anything he has done since he was elected. I'll vote for Kerry, and I'll hope for the best and for the massive changes in US politics.

Now i do love that Michael Moore fellow, I wish he'd run for President .

__________________
The six-pack will be mine...

limerickman

Saucy,

I have to say that I agree with you.
You are correct.
The rightwing Republican view is very polarised : their view of the USA and their world view is you are either with us or against us.
And those that disagree with them are denigrated as "communists, liberals, pinkos, hippies" etc.
If we were to apply their methodology of laberlling people : we could apportion the adjectives "facist, conservative, racist, sectarian, bigotted" to describe their political views.
Their use of simplistic labels to categorise ones political opinion is their only fallback when their defunct political view point is shown
to be vacuous.

limerickman

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zapper
"By the way, Clinton could have taken him out, it is a MATTER OF RECORD. In his own voice he had the chance and didn't...so yes.. Laughable - you said it ! Thanks for making my point...Clinton didn't do anything about him..Bush is and he will be found eventually...!"

I do not recall Bill Clinton ever having the opportunity to murder
BinLaden.
Please provide proof of your statement.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by zapper
"Anyway, Lman, that is a ploy used everywhere, it's called "marketing"...by the way, while on a deployment, we stopped in France...A grunch of us lined up at the train station to exhcange money and catch a train to Paris...While I was standing in line, I saw the exchange rate change right before my eyes.....These things can happen anywhere and is not an indication of a failed economy...Nice try my friend.."

I am well aware of what marketing is - what is in question is how busy your shops are.
You posted some anecdotal evidence alleging how busy your local
economy is.
I can tell you that when I was in New York - the shops were not busy.
Businesses in New York have approached the Irish Chamber of Commerce to encourage Irish people to travel to New York to shop.
If things were that busy why do New York based businesses have to canvass for customers living 3500 MILES AWAY ?

To be perfectly honest, I am beginning to form the opinion that you are quite disingenuous, Zapper.
You state that you are informed - and I think that you are informed.
Thus being informed, even when you are presented with statistical evidence and references, you continue to be disparaging toward those who disagree with your view.

You claim to be informed - yet you willful disregard the fact that
the stripping of a muslim and the photographing of a naked muslim chained to a cell door being baited by dogs - is of the utmost insult to every single muslim.
(you posted an allegedly humourous reposte on the Hating America thread in reference to a prisoner being photographed
with his head covered with womens underwear).
Is this what you call frat humour ?
You know very well that the stripping of a muslim goes against everything that muslims believe and that this humiliation shames
muslims in the eyes of their fellow muslims.
Yet you make jokes and try to "explain away" the disgusting behaviour of those troops.

Finally, I would ask you not to patronise us by referring to me as
being a nice fellow.
You don't know me - you're not an acquaintance of mine.
I would ask you to desist from referring to me in a collegial way.

PS : By the way, I am not a muslim.