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25-06.-2004, 03:29 PM
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#91 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 20
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Re: Quite a Discussion, Guys
There's is another aspect to use of PC's which is underrepresented in this discussion:
(1) When I use PC's I always fell that my hamstrings are being engaged. To a non-PCer, I would describe it as similar to the feeling you get when you've got a good rythym going up a long hill while seated. The feeling of push down with one leg while pulling through the bottom with the other leg... that's the feeling I have when using my PC's... only I have that feeling while on the flats and downhills also. (2) I was in a bike shop today and one of the guys who works there -he's also a cycling coach- saw those crazy PC's on my bike and asked some questions, so instead of answering, I just told him to get on it and ride it. He came back after 3 minutes -a ride around the block- and the first thing he said was "they switch 90% of the effort to your hamstrings" and later "i'm always telling the people I coach to pull through the bottom of the stroke, but when they get tired, they forget". ------------------ I think his 1st statement is probably accurate for a new PC user simply because the PC's force engagement (or greater engagement) of muscles unused to the task. You can see the same thing happen with adults who are learning to ski or snoboard for the first time; vast amounts of energy is expended compared to experienced athletes because the muscles haven't developed the proper 'muscle memory' or timing, so they work against one another. Anyway, in summary, my personal experience is that PC's develop hip extensors (help in running) and hamstrings (help in climbing and hammering on the flats).
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25-06.-2004, 05:05 PM
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#92 | |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Anchorage, Alaska, USA
Posts: 1,672
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Re: Re: Quite a Discussion, Guys
Quote:
If it's true that the beneficial results of these PC's are not obtained until the muscles/brain have gone through a learning period, it wouldn't make any sense to test the benefits during this training period. That's the problem with these things; if you don't get large benefits until the one year mark, that's a long time to wait, especially if you are a little bit apprehensive about the hype. You miss out on a lot of classic style training you could have done without them. If you are going to have a real study of these things, you would have to use at least two control groups and do a one or more year study to see if the results are significant against the control group(s). I doubt you would get enough elite riders to participate, especially when their own training and racing needs would eliminate them from the strict requirements of the experiment. So you are then stuck with people who don't even race amateur races. You would have to accept the results with a grain of salt. |
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26-06.-2004, 02:12 AM
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#93 |
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 20
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"...That's the problem with these things; if you don't get large benefits until the one year mark..."
>>> Your post didn't actually make any reference to any of the points I had posted. Nevertheless, I'll address your new points. (1) My entire lifetime experience of athletics tells me that whenever you stress untrained muscles, they begin rapidly improving along whatever dimension it is you are training them for; be it strength, endurance, etc. This 'responsiveness' to training is less dramatic with muscles that are already well-trained. In either case, you need to exceed the muscles' capabilities in order to provoke the training effect... but it's easier (faster) to do this for comparatively untrained muscles. I would expect use of PC's to provoke rapid improvements in formerly underutilized muscles. It is immediately clear to anyone who first tries to ride PC's continuously for, say, 10 minutes that they are working over the hip flexors and hamstrings. Based on my above reasoning, I would expect both these muscle groups to begin rapid and measureable improvements. How (or if) these improvements will show themselves as improvements in cycling and running performance is a different question entirely. But it beggars belief that strength and endurance improvements in hip flexors and hamstrings will have no effect on runner or cycling performance. (2) In your post, you appear to propose an expectation that it would take a year to see improvements. I don't know why you proposed this duration. Further, I disagree with it based on my reasoning above; I'd expect to see large improvements in hip flexor and hamstring strength and endurance. Lastly, I disagree with it based on my direct experience. (3) Re: 'real study' I agree that you are unlikely to get elites to make a major training commitment to any training device (PC's or otherwise) in the absence of absolute proof that the device works. It's more likely that you can find some elites who feel that for whatever reason they have plateaued and are looking for something -anything- that will kick-start further improvements. Similarly, if I were a coach, I'd find a plateaued subject (could be a MOPer) candidate who was both a hopeless climber and a poor runner and have him try PC's... my expectation is that such a subject would improve significantly.
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